Lets be real, enchanters ruin early TLP play

Yes. A ton of things have changed.

Probably most importantly is that the enchanter is much more survivable on a charm break now. You can have a pet that puts out 2-3x the dps of a player, and when it breaks, it is no big deal usually unless your healer is terrible. Charm is also more reliable and long lasting due to many spell and resist changes, and often will last the full duration.

With hundreds if not thousands of hours grouped with enchanters charming between Ragefire and Phinny, classic through Luclin, I can only think of a handful of times that I saw an enchanter die to pet. Vast majority of the time, I'd sit in an xp group for 6-8 hours and never had an issue or problem with charm break.

Again, why are you commenting on these things when you apparently have no current knowledge of the state of charm in the early expansions of the TLP's? Playing a 105 ench on live is not relevant to this discussion, at all.

We certainly couldn't 4 split omm every week without enchanters

Machentoo -
1) any half competent enchanter knows to rune themselves when they have a charmed pet anyway. so saying charm is much more survivable then it used to be, is complete crap. ( Rune has been available since Classic Kunark ) i like this ( and Often will last the full duration ) thats a load of crap, often? really? im full raid gear cha 200+ and still have the random charm breaks, and the repeated 7 + charm breaks in a row which depletes your mana pool, causing you to stun / mez the npc to get mana before recharming again.

2 ) hundreds if not thousands of hours group with an enchanter ( you were not the enchanter ) so your point is completely mute and you have no idea what you are talking about. If you were playing the enchanter and said you never had an issue with charm breaks then i might believe you . But then again even in classic you have ( Wand of Allure ) instant cast 3 charges along with ( Puppet String) 10 charges . So again , any half competent enchanter knows of these items and will be buying them. I bought several in era for 250p - 1000p ( Puppet strings are more pricey )

3) It doesnt matter what you think about the charm lasting longer or not, it is still the fact that the enchanter has to been paying attention 100% of the time while charm killing if he does not and steps away for 30s or longer he has the chance to die. ( in you a group setting ) this usually means that the whole group dies. ( Lguk is a great example - Charm a Dok / Guk / Dark Knight while in classic era even with full Classic raid gear) you are still going to get 4 or 5 shot, and that is not including haste on the pet. which again any smart enchanter hastes the pet and clicks it off before a fading charm.

Come and play an enchanter and tell me how many times you die because of charm failures before you come and post about being an enchanter yet know nothing about the class or how the person plays.

High Risk = High Reward

I've played an enchanter alt on all servers involved, and have always charmed when playing one.

Several hundred of those thousand hours were with me playing the enchanter.

I never had issues in places like Chardok, Velks or Griegs with death due to charm break, even when my enchanter was virtually naked. The only time I ever had problems at all was charming the Crypt Spectre in Howling Stones, which would occasionally get away with killing me on charm breaks.

Charming in Kunark 2017 is quite different than charming in Kunark in 2001.

back then:
-most players lacked knowledge, skill, gear... and levels (tons of people were still pushing for level 20-30 on their main)
-charisma had more impact, as minor as it is (changes to resist checks > than charisma impacting durations, memblurs and such, there are several long threads about chanter stats and the minimal value of charisma past some relatively easy to get to thresholds and such if one wants to get into it. Level of the NPC you are charming is more important that super-high charisma...)
-people were (at least in pugs) scared of chanters charming pets, now groups practically demand it and understand how it works generally
-it was harder to be a caster (spells are stronger, better. Mechanics have been improved. Potions...)
-corpseruns and no origin (origin is bigger to non gaters of course, but still significant)

The gear economy alone... so much easier to overgear today vs. what a typical enchanter would have had back then. People complain about the krono prices of some items... yet there are examples where the historical price is actually higher than what we see on progression, mostly due to picks/instancing. Easier to make plat to burn runes, runes are a huge survivability piece.

Notwithstanding that, enchanter is a risk=reward class that requires attention to excel. There are way more excellent enchanters on today's progression than there was back in the day.

Wife and I made enough plat to each get a horse selling C3 in the Nexus (on Cazic) back in the Luclin era. We took turns running the "plat camp" in shifts. LOL
-Rat

They rocked back in the day too. And then came "Dire Charm" even.
I can assure that in OOW Rogues are by far the most OP, saw it (again) on Quarm. Enchanters cannot heal their pet, that limits them solo a bit.
-R

If you aren't raiding with charm pets you are raiding wrong. Not sure why you can't use them on raid fights. Can you explain? It's the most efficient way to beat Sky, Naggy, Vox, Fear, Hate. So how is it not working in classic? Maybe if you are raiding with 20 necros/mages but those pets aren't as strong as enchanters so they should not use them if you have too many.

Moving into Kunark they are amazing against VS, if you don't rune spam too much (aka get your MT 500 MR), they are also dominant against Trak and the only way to beat VP bosses.

Just looking for clarity on why you think enchanters were nerfed on classic raids.

Enchanter pets don't count against the mage/necro pet limit iirc.

Thanks Machentoo. So I am even more mind blown on why the poster feels you can't use them on raids. I will add it to one of life's great unanswered mysteries.

The main reason being that with the way MOTM works, the chanter pet doesn't get aggro, the chanter does, then they die and you have a loose pet. Also, if you can't beat VP mobs without a chanter pet, YOU are doing it wrong sir. We beat all of VP in era and didn't need chanter pets to do it.

Wrong. I never do. Ever. I don't need to. Why would I waste the gems? If I were solo, maybe. But in a group I'm pulling, charming, and mezzing. Runes don't last but seconds in that scenario so why bother? Remember, we're talking up through Luclin. Any max-defensive chanter can tank group content in those expansions.

LOL, you're one of those?

Even worse they began making named in various zones transfer agro even if they don't have motm. This afaik starts in PoP such as in tactics.

Do you guys even hear yourselves?
Yes it is safe to charm in a group, hell what isn't safer in a group????
Solo it is a blast and it is dangerous, the two are intertwined. Solo requires one think very differently about runes and pets.
Ending the griefing is easy but that is not what this is about is it.

They're not even close, unless the mob is completely immune to spells and you don't have any epic monks.

Accipiter-
Nowhere did i specify a Scenario, and even in a group setting i will rune myself when i land a charm because guess why, it is 10 plat per cast and you gain more than 10 plat in 2 kills in chardok / OS / HS. No it does not cost money , nor waste it.

Runes do not last long?? 800 damage rune and its a 2 hour buff. so id rather have a 2 hour rune buff on me just in case there is a scenario that calls for me to get pummeled by multiple NPC's. Drussela hits me for 600 MAX w/ maxed defense / block and inny gnome ring for additional AC. so yes that 1 hit that my rune will absorb is beneficial, doesn't matter how you look at it. ( and my point was in a SOLO setting as in a group you should never have a problem with surviving considering any group content mob will die within 1m or less.

On top of not costing me anything out of pocket, it allows my cleric in group whomever it might be ( a chance to heal me ) and thats IF i need it. i would rather protect myself and have my cleric have that extra 250mana or whatever it may be for the main tank.

I am not going to debate with you over the CHA Stat- its a useless argument and many people have different opinions on this matter - you could have 75cha or 255 i dont care you still have charm breaks and they are unpredictable.

Wow, you fail at both reading comprehension and logic. If your rune lasts 2 hours then guess what? You don't need the rune.

Let me spell this out one more time. My rune lasts 10 seconds because I pull as well as charm. I explained this already. Your original statement was "1) any half competent enchanter knows to rune themselves when they have a charmed pet anyway." I'm refuting that statement for me, a more than half competent chanter. IDGAF what you do.

That is probably for the best that you will not debate that, since judging by the fact that you touted your 200+ CHA, you probably think it matters more than it actually does.

Charm DOES NOT CHECK CHA BEFORE A CHARM BREAK. Even though I know you won't listen, because you probably come from p99, so you know everything. Let me break it down for you: Every 6 seconds (or tick) the mob you have charmed does a few pass/fail rolls. The first, and most important, is the check of Caster level (your level) versus the mobs level. If it fails, the charm breaks. This is why mobs lower level than you are MUCH easier to charm. Secondly it does a Resist check. Mobs MR versus the Charm spell. If it fails, charm breaks. And that is it. If you pass both the level check and the resist check each time, the charm will last full duration.

The ONLY place where CHA plays a part is with resists on MEZ spells. Even then, most people agree that anything past 180 CHA is essentially useless, or at least you do not gain nearly as much benefit from it. Also, for those who think CHA will make a mez last longer....Mez spells have a set duration, and once you land it, they will remain mezzed the full duration of the spell EVERY TIME unless someone breaks it.

Just because you have a difficult time handling your charm pet, does not make the class ok. I have a feeling some of the chanters that refuse to charm in groups are venting in this post. And lol at the people comparing beastlord utility to chanter. We're talking about the first few expansions here, the moment you start bringing up Gates & OoW, you instantly don't belong in this thread.

You should get out of the thread then.