If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

Have you ever seen a community self mandate with any success, across any game or play style? Lets be real, that will never happen, whether it be for PvP or any other player idea.

Yes, there would probably still be some class unbalance, even locking it to one of the earlier expansions. It would still be better than where it's currently at on live.

As far as the hackers/cheaters, I'll give you that. We already see lots of posts about that on the PvE servers. PvP will likely see just as much if not more. On the flip side, maybe that will give DBG a better opportunity to catch and ban those players, or figure out what loop holes they're using to make it easier to shut them down. I know that's wishful thinking, but you would think trying to stop cheaters/hackers would be something DBG would want to do. Yes, it would take Customer Service support to handle, but that should be something we want them to do. Not something to sweep under the rug and pretend that it doesn't exist already.

The "PvP TLP Forum Community" don't want to self-organise, don't want to self-support, don't want to be bothered making their numbers felt on Zek, in short they want Darkpaw to do ALL the work and take ALL the risk.

That's completely unreasonable by ALL standards.

Oh we've wanted that for years and they have done absolutely nothing. In fact, you will find they often delete posts having anything to do with cheating. The most obvious of cheaters will go months until they are finally banned, and then they remake their accounts and do it all over. Don't even want to imagine how bad it would be on a PvP server.

That would be your opinion, not a fact. I think having a discussion about PvP is worthwhile, even if just to see what other players idea's are. Just because it may never happen, doesn't mean people don't want to talk about. Have you ever dreamed/talked about what could be possible if you won the lottery? Sure the chances of that is probably way slimmer than a chance at a PvP server, that doesn't mean people don't like to talk about it every now and then.

Yes, as proven by every PvP thread...

A pvp to TLP would really refresh and diversify the genre. A fun new dynamic.

Yes, I've thought about that. Their track record with handling cheaters/hackers is horrible, that's why I put "wishful thinking". There definitely would be griefers, just like on normal TLP's where you see people warping in and KSing mobs or training or any other tactic they use. Do I think it would be so bad that I wouldn't play? I would say no, otherwise I wouldn't still be in support of it. I also may have a thicker skin than others. There's others that would probably answer yes to that. There was hackers back in the day when I originally played PvP. Did it suck when you came across them? Of course it did. Did it happen so often that I stopped playing there? Again, no. But everyone's different, and their tolerances for that kind of behavior could be less than mine.

No you made a claim about a source but you didn't actually provide a source that someone could quickly check without knowing what it is.

The reality that PvP servers including the P99 ones have a low player base and are not very popular?

My opinion that the devs have stated exactly what is required for them to consider a PvP server?

The fact that people expect a PvP server to be created even though they have been told exactly what is needed for it to happen?

They are providing a service, we are paying for that service. Yes, they should put in the work to draw customers in. Have you seen any other "TLP Request" put in work to get what they want, other than posting on the forums? I would say the majority of TLP features/rule sets all came about from posting on the forums. People voice their requests, whether they get implemented or not is up to DBG. Why should the PvP request have a certain set of rules but none of the other requests? And before you even say it again... Yes, that's what the devs said years ago in an AMA... But history has shown, if something gets requested enough times, and the devs finally decide to try something new, it may get implemented. So why not do what every other TLP Request thread does, and try our luck? The worst that can happen is they don't implement it. Also, we get entertainment for a few weeks at least with all the trolls lol.

Why do you think it is their job to prove a customer base exists when all evidence suggests that it doesn't?

Did you even read what I quoted with that reply and my entire response? Or did you just default to your normal response?

Again, I would say posting the same exact line for the 100th time is considered trolling lol.

Yes, I did read your post and I will ask again, why do you think it is their job to find evidence of support for a PvP server?

That's the entire premise of business. You prove a demand for something is out there and you provide that service. Their comment from a few years ago may still hold true for them. That's up to them to decide. So far they don't think it's there and that's fine. That doesn't mean people can't still request that service. Like I said, basically every TLP feature/rule set has come from people requesting them on the forums. There's been a few that they came up with on their own. I don't ever remember seeing a random loot server being suggested, but they thought there might be a demand for it. PvP isn't the only rule set I've seen being requested multiple times on the forums.

They already have evidence that there is no demand and they have asked the small group of people who make repeated requests for this to show that there is demand. It isn't the job of a briskness to find demand in something when they have evidence that it doesn't just because someone asks them to.

DBG has access to a ton of data we don't. They used that data to evaluate the possibility of a PvP server and determined it would not be a wise business decision, unless proven otherwise. Sure you can have all the discussions you want, but it's not going to change the simple fact that there's no reason for them to risk capital on something which appears to them likely to fail.

Have you ever heard the phrase "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"?

There was an attempt a few years ago to get the devs attention, and the devs at the time said that wasn't enough. And that's fine. Do I think we could currently do something like that again and get different results? I highly doubt it. And that's also fine.

It may never make sense to them to make one, but who knows maybe one day it does. If we're not even suggesting it, it definitely isn't going to get made. But at least if we keep requesting it, they may eventually decide to give it a try.

Never said it wasn't super duper difficult, just that it -could- be done and is why FFA is the "least common denominator" (also the least amount of "policing").

I don't think you could use PvP as a way to catch any other than PvP cheaters.

The cheats/hacks they would use on the PvP server are the same ones they're already using now, on regular TLP servers. They have the same capabilities on any server when they use them. It may not be as prevalent on regular TLP's, but it's the same stuff.

If the devs have already said multiple times that there is no evidence of support for a PvP server and what they require for one to be considered repeated posts are not going to change that.

They've said it once in the last three years, lol. And how many times has it been brought up with no response before then? If they came on here and said "No" every year, then we would probably give up and eventually stop asking. They've made an official statement once in how many years? They've continued to remain "no comment" since then. So why not at least keep asking?