Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

You think creating a heroic character and auto grant aa's is ok? Its really not. First off I was hesitant about speaking up about the heroic characters. But how dare you literally take away three years of released Content that really made Everquest what it is. Classic, Kunark and Velious. You are robbing potential new players and old players of this.
You will make Everquest essentially World of Warcraft. Don't u dare do it.

I mean this by you are eliminating any reason to venture to these zones. Not only are you shrinking a players experience in the world, but the game play as well.

If you are as interested as you say you are then consider uncapping the level on them all and adding diminishing returns over max player level (not over 100 as that will probably change eventually, but over level 100 for now and then over level 105 for when the cap goes up etc). This is to make them viable skills to raiding berserkers/rangers/rogues, but not completely overbalance their dps, yet retain their full usefulness on up to level 100 group content for the most part.. Or you could have it different on raid-flagged mobs, that would make more sense and wouldn't completely trivialize old raid zones.

Berrs level 100 Berserker

gonna have to say im super against the aa's being just given away when it takes days currently to beam them but during SoD when i came back to EQ as a ranger i spend months headshotting living larder on and off to get my aa's and to literally just give away those aa's i got to new people and returning people is super idiotic and lame it gives people the ability to lvl to 85 and be max aa since UF is the 4th expac back and have 0 idea on wut aa's they have and wut they do so it promotes people with new toons and new class's to have no clue wut to do with wut aa's when u personally spend them u not only learn what the aa's do but u set up ur ui as ur toon becomes better and i agree with a few of the other posts we dont have many achievements for older expacs so why not put some to lvl people up faster if thats wut u specifically want to do

also back to the beaming part im super glad its being nerfed most toxic thing to do lvling wise u can literally lvl a toon to 70 and beam it to 100 and have 0 skills on the toon and have 5k aa's in under a week which is basically wut ur doing now and ur nerfing that so why give basically a compensation for that nerf . how i see it is ur going well we gonna nerf the easiest exp we have given out in years if not all of Eq and just give u the aa's instead i mean come on u got to see the error in that if its lagging ur servers u should just hot fix it to be only 8 targets like wizard beam was nerfed 2 it really just seems like u guys are over thinking this and turning it into World of Warcraft i mean i literally started from scratch on that game and in a month was max level with full pvp gear and raid gear sets with alts up coming so in conclusion to my long drug out post


nerf mage beam and ull see a huge notice in the lag being take off the servers other swarm pulls like sk etc dont give enough exp for people to want to do it for full groups of lvl 100s when its better to just group

also dont give out free aa's dumbest thing ever should i just wait until u guys give out full raid gear and aa's then quit a week later from sheer boredom with 0 things to do i mean come on think this 1 over it also would put a big detrimental environment on zek since people have pvp alts and with the free aa's i would just lvl up tons of lowbie sk's with max aa's and burn people as they level up to basically drive them nuts because im a horrible person like that ( not really but someone else would definitly do this ) so if ur wanting new players u got to leave something to work for when the game is just free up to 85 basically the difficulty of the game really goes to 0 i mean even when u put mercs in the game became super easy dont make it any easier

sorry for long post and prolly all wrong information but w/e my 2 cents

Elidroth gave us the count of AAs left after the autogrant; can we get the numbers for how many AAs the autogrant will give per class?

I run a magician as a main and usually box a cleric or druid nowadays.

I wholeheartedly 100% agree with changing beam, headshot, assassinate, etc etc mass and 'autokill' abilities.

Not real sure why you're going to change Shining Rampart though, it doesn't seem to fit those abilities. It sounds to me like if I want to keep it on a tank/pet now, I'm going to be recasting it like every minute or so vs single mob encounters?

AA grant: I recently leveled up a few alts, and the AA xp gain up to about 2.5k was incredible, after that it slowed way down. One other issue, was that those toons could only bank 30 AA, when a single daily task, with low AA could have probably netted them over 70AA each (pre-1k AA, at 50% to regular xp, I was still earning 30AA per task). So, bump the max banked to like 100AA, so that one could easily earn over 200AA a day just doing the most recent 3 hotzone tasks, and increase the 'super' AA xp gain (the pre-2k bonus) to about 5k AA total. People would still have a sense of earning them themselves, and returning players would be able to see a real sense of getting somewhere, instead of seeming so daunting.

Let players choose which AA they want still. As many have said, autogranting practically useless AA and pushing people past the AA xp bonus points will stink, for many.

im very sorry but if you guys start massive changing them game like you say your going to i will be hanging up my hat and i have been playing for 15 years you want people to come back stop changeing things, add more killer content, and make it fun

Honestly you should look at the ability to summon in general. It entered the game as the power of level 50 mobs which was basically Fire Giants and the two dragons (maybe I'm missing something but not many). Truly trivial stuff still has the ability to summon and it is a PITA.

Was in a zone recently and realized I not only didn't have the faction to quest there but I was KoS, I agroed a group and was unable to cover tracks, not wanting to kill them and further damage my faction I made for the zone line and it took probably 10-15 minutes since I kept being summoned. Now I wasn't in any danger in this case. And then there was the time I was trained (unintentionally I suspect) last week in a zone where I was fighting light blues (Argath), with 15 on my agro list I ran but since the one I was fighting was in summon mode I had no real chance to escape.

Seriously, the ability to summon should be a far less common ability, if that means some encounters need to be tuned, good.

Speaking to the potential changes to Headshot, right now it is single target limited to certain types of creatures below level 88 and since it is based on a range attack is is basically useless against summoning creatures, I can't see any value in making it fire less and increasing the level cap.

Are you planning on changing the Vinelash line of root spells?

I play an SK as my main and I do a lot of raiding and not a lot of group content. I think that nerfing the epic AND mortal coil is a horrible idea. What makes the swarming possible is not the epic procing off of riposte, it's the mortal coil procing that allows for the larger pulls to be killed. Just get rid of mortal coil and you can get rid of the massive lag that SKs are causing.

As for the AA grant, you're going to be creating a lot of people who have no idea how to play the class they just received 5k AAs on. Let them earn them like the rest of us and learn to play their character.

I was told that they are nerfing class that do swarm pulls/beam pulls because of server lag. If that is true then what about when people PL low lvls by using a damage shield, then ducking while the whole zone beats up on them, and then the lower lvl toon does a AEO on all the mobs to damage them a little bit, then steps back and watches them die to damage shield. I seen people pull the whole zone to do this, yes it was a lower lvl zone, but don't that also cause server lag too. Now days anyone can get a PL and get lvl 100 in a few days and the same goes for AAs too. So, to give away AAs is not going to help with anything. If anything it will cause more problems.

This nerfing classes is getting old too, I already had to make a new main because of nerfs in the past.

I think if people want to beam pull or swarm pull, just make it to where they can do in a instance zones only, and they can only do so many in a pull, not the whole thing at one time, maybe lower the amount a little bit, but still allow them to be able to do it with out making the server to lag out.The same goes for the SK too, also I don't think a SK can swarm pull red cons, and maybe not even blue cons too.

The ranger don't need another nerf, head shot don't work like it use to work, it takes more then one shot to kill a light blue mob.

This game is already really easy to play, more so then when it first come out. I been playing since 2001 and had to pay for every new expansion, and also when it was not free to play. I had to work for my lvls on my char and my AAs too. I spent a lot of time on that. So to give away AAs sounds unfair to me. So, please don't mess up this game. It really means something to people that worked hard for the lvl and AAs, and now to have a newbie that just started the game be able to get free AAs and in no time at all, be at the same lvl and AAs as a old time player is, don't sound too great to me. Anyhow they don't need the help, because now days they can get a PL and get there anyhow. The reason I'm ok with them doing it that way is because they kind of worked for them, and it was not just free. They may even had to pay some pp for the PL too.

Old time video of how hard it use to be in EverQuest, maybe make things like they use to be, and see if people will cry about how things are now.

I rerturned about a year ago after a 7 year hiatus and now have 3 gold accounts. I don't raid (as I have a family now) and mainly play 89 SK, 88 Cleric and 95 Ranger (plus a million alts). These changes, if implemented in the way described are a game stopper for me.

The SK nerf will affect their ability to tank, period. It affects named tanking, normal mob tanking, ae aggro tanking. I don't really think swarming in low level zones is really an issue for others playability but understand the load it would put on the server.

Compromise:- perhaps only ripostes to your current target should be able to proc lifetaps? That at least doesn't nerf the SK from every role they have.

The ranger HS nerf is unnecessary. Since HS only affects your current target there is no reason to "swarm". Furthermore, as you level up, HS gives diminishing returns since the HS level is stuck at 88 (and I guess will stay that way).

The others- I couldn't say. But they're not all equal - mage beaming in current content that relies on lagging the server is not the same as going toe to toe with mobs that will kill you if your disc runs out.

In terms of disruption I've seen level 100's of all classes mass kill mobs in 85-90 hotzones leaving no mobs up for my group that is appropriate level for those zones. THAT sucks. Perhaps you could assign the mob type to kill for Franklin Teek per group- so all in group get the same mob type, but the next group/ solo player would get a different one, so we don't have to wait for repops every time a level 100 comes in and ganks the whole lot before you can kill your first one! (It will mitigate, not solve *that* issue).

Auto AA's

The thing I really enjoyed about the past year was levelling new characters (when I started I just had 1 account with a level 75 cleric) and earning those AA's. None of my toons have 4k AA, not even my "evil" headshotting ranger! And yes, 4k AA delivered on a plate is a smack in the face for the AA's I've earnt myself.

I love "old" content. It seems people pretty much only log on to raid at level 100 anyway. Dumping 4k AA on my toons will make my life so much easier... but less enjoyable. I chose EQ over all the others I've tried as there is still some challenge and sense of achievement, and that's even with AA's being 10 times quicker to earn than they were in DODH (or that's how it feels anyway).

As such I HATE the auto-grant idea and it would definitely make me reconsider playing, since with the other changes- you've removed the two main reasons I think the game is fun. No fun = no point. We don't all raid, we don't all play for 4 hours at a time, but even casual players front the $$.

Compromise:- someone else said this: just auto grant CA and CS up to 85. They're a massive pain to grind and are basically essential. All the class AA's should be your choice and earnt to give that sense of achievement.

After spending quite a bit of time mulling it over, I think the 4k granting could be workable but I'd think it needs to have two things:

1> You should refund every person who already has AA all their AA so they can spend it on something else. They should not be stuck with 4k AA if they already have 3200. If everyone is granted 4k aa then they should get those 4k, plus all the AA they earned to spend elsewhere.

2> You should make it so that I have a glyph that allows me to give away aa. If we are gonna be autogranting AA then I should be able to gift or sell AA to others as well. Or barring the idea of selling them to others, give me a 'glyph of stored experience' that is heirloom so that I can create stacks of AA and give them to my alts.

I am not sure why people are griping over the AA being Granted, if it will help new players go for it. On the Swarm issues i really could care less, but if it does stop the lag caused in some zones that are abused i guess it will be worth it. I do Feel bad for Piestro and The Dev's for having to listen to this outcry. Do not let peoples griping over sway you to change your mind as if its good for the game then go with these changes.

Seems like this change is going to bring back grouping , and more people. More people = you get to keep on playing and and eq dont shut down. Quit your crying and give ideas on how the changes can be positive.
Im for it, I hate when I come in the zone and someone is boxing and you ask to join and they say no. Or someone is swarming and wants you to pay to join their group. I would like to try other classes so bring on the aa.

Dev Team,

It warms my heart to see that when making some big changes to the game, you actually read feedback from your customers. This is my first post on the forums, but I wanted to contribute to the tread as so many others have.

My concern is that the team is missing the point as to why people love to swarm/beam/whatever.

My opinion is that this fondness of the aforementioned activities are three fold:
1.) Occam's Razor: It's much easier to AFK an alt/friend/guildie in a zone with you while another character gets them excessive AA's. No one should deny that.
2.) Catching up friends: I know personally it has been a boon catching up my recruit-a-friends to my level/AA's within a week or two, and the the retention rate with them has been well because of it.
3.) There are too many AAs to worry about, period. For example: 40 something ranks of health increase? Am I not the only one that sees this as a bloated number?

Now, I understand the technical side of things (I'm a programmer by trade), and its unfortunate that the pathing is causing so many problems. I'm actually surprised your solution doesn't just utilize more leashing to avoid having packs of 100 mobs to begin with. It seems to me though you are treating a symptom with this patch (albeit, an effective one). I would work to optimize the pathing calculations if at all possible. Throw enough interns at a problem, and they usually come up with a better idea!

Now the fun part, recommendations!
1.) When I played WOW for a bit, I was noticing a trend with the younger players - they don't want to grind for anything, it's all about instant-win. Evaluate if you still want EQ to still be known for the grind. If the answer is yes - keep the AA experience the way it is and just let the AA exp bonus go away when the boost goes live. I don't believe now a days, that's a viable option though, with an influx or the next generation (yes I realize, that means both your game and I am showing our age). It simply doesn't give enough instant gratification to the newer player base, which is, in part, hurting retention and server population. Let me be clear though, I am not saying make getting AA's an over night process. If you agree with me, here are a few things you might consider changing:

• Remove the penalty on fellowship experience. This will not directly increase your experience but will give a friend or alt more of a change of guilt-free catching up. I would also like the cap on EXP a character can get removed/raised. Why does it matter, really?
• Remove the penalty for Leadership/Raid exp. I thought I remembered these being discussed about these being removed anyhow.
• When you are max level (99% into 100), have the experience automatically fall into AA exp without needing us to have AA turned on. The same way it works for the reverse.
• Change (or add), an experience pot with charges. I mean by that, for a few bucks, I get double experience after using the potion for 100 mobs, instead of 4 hours.
• Increase the rate at which AAs are gained by baseline by some %, 10-25 would probably be noticeable.
• (This is a longer shot) Make an AA to "gift" AAs at a penalty. For example: for 25 AAs, instead of buying the spiffy firework, let me create an "AA Pack" witch will give someone 15-20 AA's. This would be a neat item to have on the bazaar also. To prevent misuse, put a several hour cooldown or something. This would make people log in to use it, which is one of the things you hope to get with the station cash changes anyhow, right?
• This has the pre-req of the above AA gift. Increase or remove the AA cap at 100. My suggestion is that before a content patch with new AAs, you could convert everyone's banked AAs at 100 into AA Gifts (at no penalty). That way, they can still technically bank up for the expansion, but with the cool down it would only help them over the course of a few weeks - not instantly, which effectively kills the goal of banking up.
• Have more "AA's" that are achieved by more than just grinding. One example you already have is the Trial of Mata Muram. I still don't have that 6/6! Make it so that the quest/event/whatever has a reward for those that do it more than once also - to promote people helping each other. Also, make the harder-to-acquire ones have unique spell graphics (think firewoks) to say "Hey look, I worked hard on my character".

2.) Try to get rid of the AA bloat.I liked the changes a few months ago when you combined the mana-gift line of spells. It reduced the amount of stuff I have to sort through to see what to buy!

• I say that if you are going to remove 16 expansion worth of AA by auto-granting, hide them. As in, have a "legacy view" checkbox on the AA screen so that people can see the history if they want, but in general, have the AA screen only show stuff that you control (4 expansions worth).
• Leave activate-able abilities, obviously.
• Reduce the number of ranks accordingly.
• Throw in a simple search box, show me "Virulent Talons" when I type "Viru"!

3.) Misc suggestions that I wanted to throw in here

• Make spells/AAs linkable. Perhaps give us a chat command - /g ChatLink="Fireball Rk. II".
• Reduce Veteran ability cool downs. I end up never using mine because I know a day is a long time to wait. Silly psychology.
• Put some DLL callbacks in place to break macro-quest. Cheating is bad, mmmkay?
• Start using your in game Polling system for game changes like this (Shift-V), I don't think its even supposed to be visible, but it's a neat idea, lol!
• Get your interns/CS people to run GM events, those are what I remember from early on in this game. Not the day to day stuff.

Thanks for reading,
Concerned Player #12356

I feel like this is a pretty disingenuous statement with a lot of buzzwords. It sounds nifty until you think about it. There is no room to "grow" an ability that is innately limited in its usefulness by making it less useful. It's been what has allowed me to solo play a tiny little bit in a game where it's very hard to get a group unless you're boxing you're entire group or can afford to buy your own merc slots.

Even with a magician main, I dont disagree with the beam/swarm nerfs. I'm just glad I never relied on beaming to level or aa, just farm low level greys for plats.

The auto-aa though, now that I dont like at all. I would rather they upped the aa xp bonus gained rather than be giving free aa's either as a lump sum via expansion or by level. At least we would still have to earn it and we can choose where the aas go before we reach the aa xp bonus threshold.

First. I am tired of everyone getting everything the easy way. I worked my toons up and earned my aa's, every single one of them. If it is to hard for them, let them go play WoW. Second. If the reason for the nerfs are server usage and crashing, fix your servers, leave the game alone. I am equally tired of having things taken away. Yes, I play a ranger as a main. I can guarantee my hs pulls have never lagged a zone. You gave that ability to me a long time ago, not last week, now step up and leave it alone and fix it another way. Stop giving us things only to change them later as you see fit. This by the way is exactly what ruined Vanguard from day 1. If it was to hard for a few people you changed it. If someone complained this class had it to good, you changed it. It is getting old. Honestly why go play EQ NEXT and invest in it just for you to this same crap there.

I am a veteran player and my main is a 100 necro, so I am not really affected by the class changes you outlined. I do have a problem with your approach to fix the lag issue on the servers since they are just a band-aid and are not addressing the real problem. Your code..... You are saying the beam kiting is affecting the load on the server due to the calculations of NPC pathing. Why can't you optimize your code so it wouldn't be such a load on the server? Seems like a real lazy way to mask the problem which will come back in the future since you didn't address the real issue. If you can not fix your code, throw some more hardware at it. Servers are relatively inexpensive these days. Ask Facebook and Google. Check into server clustering, virtual servers, load balancing, etc... There are many viable solutions that would fix your problem.

Also, auto-granting AAs takes away what makes this game unique from the other games out there. Where a person has a sense of accomplishment from "EARNING" their AAs and making their character unique by the way they spend the points. Instead you are handing out the AAs like it is welfare and making everyone feel they are entitled to them. This will absolutely ruin the game. I have over 4000 AAs and now I feel cheated that I invested a lot of time and effort to EARN the points when you are going to simply give it away since someone whined.

Many of us are watching how you will handle this situation and I believe there will be major fall out if these changes are pushed through.

Loopher

If so then they will need to fix low lvl power lvling too, because all you have to do is take a high lvl and a lower lvl that has AEO spells, not get into group with them, then pull the whole zone and let the low lvl toon AEO the mobs, then sit back and watch the lvls go.. This happens more then beam pulls and swarm pulls. Im just saying since you said they trying to get rid of PLing well them lets be fair about this..