What do the casual players want? They want groups. Boxing is not a casual thing except for maybe with 3rd party software. The more toons you play on a true box the more work it is. Casual players want a social server. So how does DB create a casual server? Let’s take about what’s hard-core and where we push casual players out. You know racing to max lvl and then monopolizing camps to farm krono is hard-core. The guy that sits on camps with 6 nerco's isn't casual. The guy that was framing J-Boots 24/7 with a full grp. of max lvl's two weeks into Coirnav wasn't casual. The person that rolled 12 mages and then camped them afk everywhere after getting max lvl 16-18 days into Coirnav was not casual. Perhaps the only way to go casual is to make it a no boxing server. I think anything else DB does will just allow an easy avenue for hard-core players to have their server and also farm the casual one. In the real beginning of EQ boxing wasn't that popular in classic or even up into Velious. It wasn't really until Luclin and PoP that you started seeing boxers more often and even then it wasn't a box army, most boxers in the original days of PoP had two toons. I also noticed that the way xp is tweaked towards group bonuses versus solo xp isn't exactly casual either. Casuals aren't concerned with min/max. They don't need the best group and so are forced to only play classes on that list. The group xp bonus always favoured the hard-core boxer. Perhaps a server wide bonus is enough and if it's only one toon per player that would encourage the kind of grouping we used to see back in the day. However, if we give the groups a bonus on top of the server wide one then all those days a casual go exploring or messing around and perhaps solo's he will be falling behind the curve. You know as we speak pre-made are forming for both these servers. I like the idea of a casual server. I like the idea of even having a role-play guild. Not sure how to balance everything though. Casual doesn't mean everyone should just get BiS and things should be so easy they are boring. I think the idea of limiting the advantages that the hard-core players have over casuals is the only way to make this work. Maybe lvl lock, let’s say 1-30 two weeks, 30-40 two weeks, 40-50 two weeks. I think this could be interesting, would we then see a raid on lower guk at 30th lvl? What we won't have a people beating Naggy and Vox in 2 weeks. Not sure what that would take though.
Casual players want groups 24/7 not having to wait, and the only way to get that is to box. Now do you see the conundrum?
I think your logic is flawed. I do NOT think casuals want 24/7 groups at all and I think most casuals are fine having to look for groups and would even prefer that over a server overrun by mass boxers. Casual people want to smell the roses and it isn't about getting to 50 super fast. What they want is to get on and then at least see some progress made when they are in groups. They want fast EXP, not the ability to box 6 characters. Sorry but having been a RL and GL of multiple casual friendly raiding guilds on multiple TLP's I dont think I have EVER heard a casual player say: "God I am so sick of grouping with other people, I wish I could just box my full group!" No, casuals actively look to level with others and want to play the social game as much or sometimes even more than the raid game. What me and all the people I know want is a Phinny Clone with FAST EXP. Everyone I have spoken to from past guilds on Agnarr, Phinny, and LJ almost universally have said so. Coirnav was so close but DBG messed it up with slow EXP. If they remove Truebox on the casual server I know a lot of people who would consider not playing there, myself included.
Well, if they just outright remove truebox from either server it will be a belly flop. Nobody wants to run into 18 man mage armies with disposable characters designed to grief. I'd be stunned if mass boxing is ever allowed again. Actually, I had a post last week about the idea of starting with true box and it being turned off when servers get really mature (and the populations thin out compounded with the instanced nature of the world).
I am all for removing Truebox down the road. I think they SHOULD remove Truebox on Phinigel cause its way passed the era where Truebox is really effective. I think Truebox is absolutely necessary pre-GoD though, and frankly I think the expansion to remove Truebox is probably DoN - which has traditionally been the first expansion that TLP populations start to nose dive in. They lose people after Classic, then Velious, then PoP of course, but once OOW is over populations go down quite a bit and that seems like a good time to let people start boxing. I actually have a theory from watching multiple TLP guilds that the largest drop in population is around week 8 of Classic. So many guilds I have been in/lead had hundreds of people mid classic but by week 2 of Kunark they are down to only 50-100 active members with hundreds inactive. That to me is the largest population drop the servers ever see at one time.
Lol what about 24/7 is casual? That sounds hard-core to me. There's other aspects to the game other then grouping and leveling. Trevalon is right casuals don't mind exploring or looking for a group, it's not a race... Trying something new and not being concerned with min/max, best xp, BiS or best guild and server firsts is casual. That's why I think role-play might even be an angle here, immersion in the game and not just mindless xp grind. You know boxing makes less an impact in Luclin and even less an impact in PoP. I suggest no boxing till then. No boxing will do wonders for the group game.
Hey here was that last thread you could check out. Who knows maybe the devs will implement it so TLP servers can actually finish their lifespans (RIP Fippy, the living dead)?? https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...rit-of-tlp-the-answer-may-suprise-you.253963/
I believe this is very much correct. I do want to add to this though that I DO think Fast EXP is a must for a casual server. While casuals don't want to rush to end game they also don't have long stretches to play so when you only have 2 hours to play and you find a group you want to actually see the EXP move. Nothing is worse to casuals then joining a group and playing their allotted 2 hours and then only getting half a level. That is so demoralizing and makes you just want to quit cause while you don't have to be there in 1 week like Hardcores want, you do eventually want to get there and it not take 3 months.
Fast exp and slow unlocks seem like the low hanging fruit for a "casual" server. Needs some spice though, which we are all waiting to hear more about...
Having an opinion is not a bad thing but the fact of the matter is a casual gamer is just somebody that either can't or chooses to not attribute as much effort into their gaming. They simply do not place gaming as one of their top priorities. The desires for casual gamers runs the gamut so stating what "they" want is impossible to do. Some might want to just log in and spend a bit of time in a fantasy virtual world while others would still like to experience the raids and obtain BiS gear. As an example, while my brother and I both consider ourselves casual gamers, he is more the prior while I'm more the latter. I want my character to be omnipotent but I can't be bothered to invest the time required to farm the same mobs for hours with a slim chance at the item I want. I'd rather experience the event and be given what I desire and move on. Is it easy street? Sure, but it's what I desire and how I enjoy the game. Some might disagree but in the end not everybody sees things in the same light. The endless "TLP idea" threads created on these forums is proof of that.
Agree with all this. It is why I use words like "I think" or "I believe" I try very hard not to use definitive statements because what makes a casual player is so vastly different from player to player. All I go on is my experience having been a Guild Leader and Raid leader of Multiple guilds on multiple TLP servers that are all marketed as "casual friendly" guilds. My guilds generally raid 2 nights a week with sometimes a 3rd optional night or a 3rd temporary night. So, I use information gathered for the people who join a guild of that nature. To some that seems like a TON of time and is hardcore and to others that is child's play and is ultra casual. Its so much easier to define a Hardcore player than a casual. I consider myself a "semi-casual" player. I will play really hardcore to max level then I generally play 10-12 hours a week only logging in for raids. I know people who take months to hit max level cause they play 4-5 hours a week and I know people who play 16 hour days but only do it once every 2 weeks - Casual and hardcore to me is less a time metric but more a state of mind. I am casual because I don't like mass boxers. I want fast EXP with middle of the road unlocks. I want to raid but no more than twice a week (maybe 3 times for very short periods). I want to get to 50 fast but then only log for raids. I do not like split raiding as I believe its a hardcore mentality (I even quit my Phinigel guild that I raid lead from classic to PoP because of the leaderships insistence on split raiding Quarm - well that and I hated 2 other officers lol). I do not like tons of boxes on raids because boxers tend to have a hardcore mentality. But I am just one guy and my definition of casual is probably very different than other's. Thats why these posts are good, so Daybreak and see a lot of angles.
As a casual I admit that I used to think boxing was the devil. I was wrong. Boxing is just another thing that can be abused by people who seek to abuse. I think Truebox has been a great solution to mitigate mass boxing while still allowing casuals to utilize a great tool for their style of gaming. That guy you mentioned that monopolized Jboots camp...you think any boxing limits gonna stop him? I don't. I think that guy would find "some" way to get that camp and keep you off of it, in fact I'm certain of it. I agree with your assessment that casuals want groups and my experience on Agnarr is that boxing has helped grouping way more than hurt it. In a perfect world we wouldn't have any boxing...but the world we have I'm not sure could survive without it. I didn't used to believe it but I'm telling you its true; I have been in too many groups and even raids that would have ended or never started without those boxes. Boxing can absolutely be casual...if done casually.
I think this is where the term "casual" can be confusing because it has different meanings to different people. In your mind casual means low effort based on your responses. Other peoples idea of casual is reflective of time and not effort. Joe only has an hour per day to play so he is a casual player based on amount of time. But with that hour of playing time Joe wants to maximize his efforts and get crap done. Jane has 10 hours a day to play but she does not mind standing around chatting for 80% of it or running around exploring the world. Both are "casual" depending on what you have determined casual to be. Personally based on the aging population of the game vs 20 years ago I would define a casual more based on amount of available playing time and not based on actual effort to accomplish something. I would consider Jane to be more lazy or less focused and Joe to be casual even if he is hardcore during his limited playing time getting stuff done.
Boxing is super casual, i have a few family members who can only play 2-4 hours a night and they will only ever play on a server if it allows boxing. It's MUCH easier for them to box their own group then to log in and go lfg for an hour or 2.
Exactly the OP has zero clue or imo about what casual actually means. First they already have their mind made up what a boxer is. They plugged all boxers into one group assuming they are all some hardcore farmers trying to max each toon with unlimited playing time to do so. Just because it takes more effort to control more than one toon does not make a person hardcore. Lots of boxers are casual and they remain casual playing this game because they can box and not have to waste precious time looking for groups. They are usually productive when they have time to play but in terms of overall playing they are still rather casual. A hardcore player is one who has lots of time and is very productive with said time. These are your high end raiders usually who do every quest, achievement, and get BIS for everything. They know every ability of their class, how to use it, and play their toon at a masterclass level. They also probably have at least one alt if not multiple that they try to max while they wait for the next expansion. These players can be boxers or solo players but saying to boxing equals hardcore is ignorant at best.
I’m looking for the casual server with boxing enabled and I can safely assure you that i know Many boxers who seek that as well. I’m a long haul trucker so my play time is limited for one. Boxing lets me log on and play now!! 2) as a boxer I find that we need More time per expansion to gear our toons and faster Unlocks tends to leave us behind playing catch up 3) boxing is a HUGE + to dbg bottem line. We all want eq to keep on and boxing makes that happen. As I said in another post: 1000 humans on a Truebox server is dbg earning 15k a month in access fees + station cash item fees 1000 humans who box on a boxing server playing 6 toons each is dbg earning 90k a month in access fees + station cash item fees. Boxers support true box servers. If you DONT want to play around boxers then play on the new true box server and enjoy
