Aradune dead for leveling now.

Not everyone stopped playing when they maxed their AA out, even before people had augments to farm or glyphs to restock they were still interested in playing to help their friends & guild mates to catch up - unless they were one of those selfish people who stopped helping others as soon as their character was done with AA.

On live or TLP most of the guilds I was in people still played when maxed out, whether they had banked AA or not just meant they could make quicker progress in the game & make themselves stronger for their guild to help them to be more competitive with the other guilds - back when being competitive with other guilds was still a thing people cared about.

In later expansions the advent of glyphs, which are temporary boosts which use AA to power them, banked AA are an essential part of the game, at the current max level this is particularly true. And re-filling the AA bank is a constant activity for many players as they expend them using glyphs.

Yeh eventually glyphs become a big part of life, I spend like 400 a week on raids (in later expansions) and burn through another 200 - 300 a week just messing around usually.

I'm not sure why any of that is relevant? I've played through all these expansions on single characters, and I've done it boxing. The guy said he didn't think a guild would PL people who joined, I pointed out that's incorrect because I've seen it done dozens of times (and others agreed). So all you've said is "You have a lot of different experiences and have only said correct things in this thread, why should we listen to you?"

I don't care about AoE grinding one way or another, I've never done it. Just like ranger headshotting, or beam kiting or SK swarms I suspect if we do remove it people just move onto the next easiest thing.

No you wouldn't. I'm not sure how this is complicated. Paladin Joe has 130 banked AA's. PoP releases, he buys 130, earns the remaining 214 for him that expansion, then banks another 130. He played for 334 AAs. Paladin Fred plays on a no banking server, PoP releases, he farms the 334 aas available and stops. They both played the same amount in PoP.

And you'd be correct that adds up fine while keeping things to strictly a paper math equation and within a generic based setting. The problem with that though is the game is played by real people, who as a large whole within that total surface math tend to be better incentivized to keep logging in and playing when they have a tastier progressive carrot still available for them at the end of that stick.

By frontloading AAs starting in Luclin you simply end up creating a more in detail cycle where POP releases, a whole lot of those Paladin Joes out there immediately turn around and buy most or all their most interesting, meaningful, and actual progressive based AAs during the fairly quick 100% of the exp going in to the grind to 65, and then more quickly find themselves with nothing much that's meaningful left to accomplish for the next 5+ months other then to log in and attend raid nights. All the while of course hoping a lot of those Paladin Joes stay adequately engaged with the game long enough to make it through that stretch and into GoD instead of quitting after they stop logging in daily anymore for such an extended period of time earlier in the expansion cycle.

Or basically, I think it's a pretty safe bet that grinding for AA's you won't even need or use for 5+ months down the road doesn't offer nearly the same staying around appeal as grinding out your cool progressive abilities in era, and which helps make the overall probability odds much more in favor of seeing Paladin Fred still logging in to Aradune right now outside of raids then Paladin Joe's are.

Paladin Joe won't have 130 AA going into PoP he can only have 120 (Banked AA = level x2.0).

Paladin Joe will not be able to buy all the ranks of his key AA right off the bat, each rank of AA has a level requirement so he will need to be 65 before he can buy whatever he wants from PoP.

Upon PoP unlocking he will be able to buy 1 rank of most PoP AA fairly soon - if he has maxed his HP bar at 60, then each level he gains after will unlock more AA ranks - but most players prefer to rush to level cap before accumulating more.
There are 334 AA total for a Paladin in PoP and at 65 after maxing his PoP AA he will then be able to bank 130 aa for GoD.
The assumption that Paladin Joe stops playing, grouping or helping out his guild once he has finished all of his AA & has 130 banked for GoD is flawed, sure there may be some folks who will, most will not, and that's assuming Paladin Joe even plays often enough to gain all of those AA before GoD unlocks.
(side Note On Mischief & Thornblade LDoN now only lasts 1 month.)

https://www.raidloot.com/aa?name=&effect=&class=Paladin&tab=&exp=Planes of Power

I mean if you really think punishing casual players will encourage them to want to play with you more, have at it. Not sure why I'm wasting my time when there's no chance of them ever removing banked AAs so this is all moot.

Well... I hate to break it to you, but max AA means nothing. 90% of my guild went into PoP with max banked AA and max regular exp. We grinded to 65 and did low level PoP stuff per our raid schedule. Every guildmate was 65 by the end of the next week. Since then, while doing the raid farming, 90% have also maxed AAs, banked max after purchasing glyphs, and maxed exp into 65.

However.. These individuals still login. They still play the game so they can level alts, or boxes, or gear them, flag them, work tradeskills. Is there a disadvantage to not being max banked AA going into a new expansion? Sure. But it's nothing that's significant. You still play to better your characters, whether it be via achievements, tradeskills, quests, languages, whatever the case.

A good portion of us play the game because we love it.. and, likely, because this game is more addictive than heroin. We play to help friends, guildies, heck even random people. I'm happy to go out of my way to kill a Phinny or Trak for a newly returned bard. I love being able to give away droppable loot because it's taking up bag space and I'm too lazy to sell it.

People that want to play, will play. People that don't, won't. It's literally that simple.

With all due respect to what you thoughtfully posted there, from what I can gather it should probably include a disclaimer in there that none of that perspective is coming from somebody actually playing on Aradune. Which is kind of relevant in any big picture here given we have firm evidence that if a given a choice a much larger % of the EQ player base would choose a week of 6 hours que just for the opportunity to log into a dumpster fire before choosing to roll/play on the server and it's surrounding ruleset you happily decided to make a home in. A server where your guild makeup can also potentially consist of only few actual players one could count on a single hand mass boxing your entire online population or raid force.

Again I totally respect what you wrote there, and it's of course always refreshing to find people still taking that overall view towards the game.....but in the end it seemingly adds up more as an outlier stance then anything else. Especially if you are also going to completely condense and oversimply your final conclusion statement there that basically just skips right over any specific reasoning behind the "why" we see people stop people playing the game in the first place. Which isn't typically isn't going to play itself out that "nothing like being bored or running out out of meaningful things to do played a part in this. I just woke up today and simply decided I don't like playing EQ anymore" simple.

This sounds like an opinion mostly based on a conjecture of what you think happens going totally against what people are telling you is their actual experience of what is really taking place.

I'm not saying your own personal experiences of the game are not valid but the way you speak you don't actually appear to be relaying information from your own experiences.
If you were then your Aradune guild may not be typical since you seem to be the only one saying that guild members in general are not playing once they have their aa done while everyone else is relaying experiences that are typical for most guilds on most TLP in which most guild members in fact do continue play even while maxed AA and it is that which completely undermines your argument.

Perhaps you are conveying your idealism rather than what you have actually seen and are trying to describe what you think should be happening rather than what actually takes place?
In which case you are simply arguing for the sake of argument, over an idea you hold dear and while that's perhaps even admirable it's difficult to see what your end objective is here when given that aa banking is not going away any time soon and you have gained little to no support for that idea so far.

Aradune is only dead for people that don't take initiatives.

If you're the type of person to sit in the LFG queue until someone picks you up? You're doing it wrong.

That said, 1-60

Most people are decked out in gear that is unobtainable for the level (aka Twinking)

Unless you're playing a class that is totally reliant on other classes (Warrior, Cleric, or Rogue); twink gear makes you near indestructible paired with Temperance (readily available in PoP). In full Loam I was able to casually take a Mage from 1-25 (without a potion) in about 6 hours solo. A majority of this time was spent getting my spells in order and working skill ups in between.)

You don't need a full group, nor do you need a specific group.

There's always at least 1 other person looking to group and with the current gear curve you can operate without a healer. You just need to make sure you always have Temperance and potions.

In this expansion, you can accumulate enough wealth by your mid 20s to buy whatever you need for success.

Paludal Caverns is a gift from the developers.

It is a zone tailored to help anyone achieve a foothold to advance. You can stay here solo into your mid 20s and accumulate significant coin in the process. I tested this statement a few weeks ago and with the creation of a 2nd Mage and leveled him nekkid from 1-25. By 25 and about 10 hours played I was once again in full loam, platinum level jewelry, and more than enough coin left over to purchase all spells to Lv50. The hardest part was going from levels 1 to 2 and acquiring the money needed for the first pet.

Note: In addition, make sure to group with at least 1 other player. The XP moves faster with the group bonus.

Once you're 60, you should be in a guild and are now close enough to the leveling curve to be relevant.

Did you form a group with that other person that is LFG?

I don't typically put words in anyone's mouth, but of course they didn't.

And, herein lies the immediate problem with a sample of the EQ community. There are those lazy, but vocal few that just want to waltz into a formed group rather than put one together. I'm sure that I'm not the only one, but I do check the LFG queue to see how long people remain in the queue (especially my own guildmates), in order to gauge initiative. I do this because I'd rather not fill a slot with someone that's been LFG for hours, but rather fill it with someone that will reach out and ask to do something.

For example, I've watched *6* guildmates concurrently post they were LFG for 2 hours. The 6 of them were comprised of tank (Pally), healer (Cleric), damage, and Puller/CC (Bard) roles. Not a single one of them put a group together with the availability of the others. And, it's not like they were in group gear as these are players in full VT/Emp/Seru pieces at the time.

After bearing witness to the above, I straight up ignore anyone I find in this category - even my own guildies, because I can't stand it.

(P.S. - If you're the shy type, this does not apply to you.)

I will be the first to admit that I don't often make groups and I am also a little picky on where I group...

Having said that, I also don't complain when I am not getting a group for long periods of time. If I want a group badly enough I find whatever will work with one of my toons and just start somewhere simple and almost every time we will see more LFG in general that we can invite.

Also, don't look for that perfect group setup. Get a healer (Shaman/cleric/druid) and a tankish type (paladin/warrior/SK/Bst/Mnk/Mage/Ench/necro) and anyone else. You can make it work. Almost anything can tank especially if you have a slower.

Too often I see lvl 20/30ish groups asking for specific classes. You don't need a specific class. You can even live without enchanter although I see a lot of groups who simply won't take anything else.

Well to be fair this contributing factor will always exist regardless of the state of the online server pop. It's obviously just much less of a factor when you have a lot more total people consistently logging in, and as such which raises the total probability amount that you'll see more go getter player types in that LFG pool who are actually going to make that extra effort

Everyone is now 6 boxing on aradune, the gm's are on an extended vacation

I find that this is normally the case. Or they will only want to go out into the world with a full group that is *perfect*

Its as simple as - everyone moves to the new server

As a general rule of thumb anybody who is 6 boxing there today was just likely 6 boxing from the start anyway. Just like they'll always choose to do on any server they play on, regardless of the surrounding ruleset, once that playstyle approach grabs their invested interest.

That as a whole is actually rarely the product of a declining daily log in population. It's also not even remotely true if you spend any real time in game making a quick run around the populated Aradune zones. If anything there is less clearly blatant offenders doing such because that playstyle minded type is typically always among the first in line to be attracted to brand new set of servers.