Test Discussion Swimming

Whoa, you beat me to it. Oh, wait, someone else beat you to it. Hmm, I guess I should read the thread before responding to quotes, lol.

Swimming is currently implemented as a form transformation that acts like a Flight variant. As was outlined in a previous post, nothing is acting like what you would expect to see with regard to swimming. If something is stunned, it just falls instantly to the bottom of the ocean floor. If you disengage movement mode, you end up running around like there is no water. The controls act exactly like Flight. If you use a transformation trinket, you can explore Atlantis with Acrobatics or Superspeed. The Swimming form is mostly just there for people that aren't Flight and for flavor.

The downside to making Swimming a form transformation is that you can't switch armories.

If they could make Armory switching work with form transformations, that would solve most problems associated with the swimming form.

Being stuck with one loadout while swimming is a DLC-ruining problem.

In addition to already mentioned problems of people needing to be able to switch roles in instance for certain bosses or if a role goes down/ out, many of use different loadouts for different moments within content.

On Titans Island, I often use a support build to do dailies--pop a shield and rescue people for instance. Then use a general dps loadout for other dailies then use a boss loadout for the bounties or the Giant Robot. And I also might want to show off new outfits with leaguemates while there.

None of that would be possible in Atlantis and it puts a GIANT damper on the entire DLC.

Please, please sort this out before it goes live. Being stuck with one build while swimming is unacceptable and simply will not work.

Just so there is no confusion, you can change your loadout bar. The problem is you can't swap armories.

It is always inconvenient swapping powers around manually, but it is doable. Swapping roles is far more problematic in any of the underwater content at the moment due to the armory limitation.

First off Meeps thanks for responding to our posts earlier on what "Is expected" and that you will look into some of the things.

To answer 9001BPM's question. Personally I would want a 'new prone' stance for our characters to take when they have been defeated at the same spot they were defeated at so they don't 'fall down'. But to save time in fixing issues I would suggest keeping the normal kneeling position for the moment.

I have to say the Armory issue is a lot bigger than it appears the more you think about it. As others have said it is a huge thing in the Instances as there ones that are completely swimming and fights that you are swimming in. Their suggestions of either putting a code loophole for those in a Transformed Swimming State or placing 'air bubbles' around where we assume our normal movement seem like the best options. The Transformed acception is the ideal method we all would want but the air bubbles are a workaround we all could accept as a stop gap measure.

Devs something to consider with all our comments on both the Movement State toggle/super speed/knock out issues and the Armory issues is if you can figure out these issues is that it also opens the door for something like OUTER SPACE as both Outer Space and Deep Ocean Waters the physics functions very similarly and is why NASA does their training in the water.

I really like the Swimming system in general it is a lot of fun and on that alone I am wanting to buy this DLC but these issues need to be addressed BEFORE this DLC/Episode launches. This isn't the kind of thing that can wait for a later patch weeks or months later. This could actively hurt the game.

If you ask me we need a new prone stance in general but yeah Ooh yeah space too, that’d be awesome. My characters’ suits are rated for vacuum as well as deep sea exploration. (Total nerd with fleshed out character backstories here)

That does help a hair but leaves enough problems that this is still a DLC-ruining issue.

I absolutely love the extra flavor, don't get me wrong.

But being able to switch armories during gameplay is always crucial in my opinion. All sorts of issues arise during gameplay that call for different builds-- being able to do that is part of what make's DCUO's gameplay rich and fun. Please, please find some kind of solution to this

I do really like the swimming in general but not with the issues we have found. Of all the threads so far in the last day this has gotten not only the most views but most replies from the testing players and gets talked about in chats on the test server. That alone should raise red flags on its importance.

You are saying that armories are worthless in Atlantis content. Well then you should not have any ELITE version of the content as people in Elite change armories a lot from fight to fight as they find they need things, change from Range to Melee, Single Target to AoE, Damage to Support. There is also the issue of PUGS and Event where you have a random group of people put together and you find Oh there is no Tank/Healer/Controller and one is needed but oh wait we can't change armories so we are stuck with DPS instead of getting a needed role... This will negatively impact your players greater than you think.

As for the Open World fighting we are are truely fighting in a 3D space something that we really don't ever do. There are only ever a few mobs that fly in other open content and its never a big deal there as you plan to avoid them or you knock them down to avoid/fight them. But here we have mobs that we actually need to fight and fight above the ground so them being knocked down or us being knocked down can be an important issue depending on the environment below us at the time.

I highly advise these Swimming issues be added to the Known Issues list so players become aware of it. Especially if you are going to launch the DLC/Episode with this as it is.

While it has been duly noted that we are all thankful for the swimming animations it sadly is a crucial issue that we can not utilize the game fully. If it was just open world, then it would be annoying. However, I feel as though the fact that it effects instances definitely knocks it up to crucial on level of importance of fixing.

This cannot be overstated imo.

Hey everyone, we've heard your concerns about armories and are investigating possible solutions. This is our biggest open world in quite some time and I look forward to reading all the feedback ya'll have regarding its many aspects!

I know, this is going beyond details, but during control effects characters and NPCs "fall" down in the water. I know, it might be challenging, but can you disable gravity?

Thank meow for this update regarding the swimming armory issue .

I think the best thing to do most likely is to just make enemies immune to all stuns so they don't fall. I don't think there is any areas in the game without gravity.

Maybe just stuns from dps role players if possible. I could see a problem healer trolls and tanks would have but no one would/should kill random adds in a support role. Thats more for big open world bounties.

So about the swimming

First of all I love that this is a thing we get to have now. Graphicly it seems a bit odd that we only swim with our legs and not our arms at all but maybe this is due to combat having more defined arm motions and you didn't want to conflict with that. Which is fine as is if so.

The falling however is a problem. We are not flying in the air, things float or sink in water. So if I turn off my movement mode or knock down an enemy they should not drop to the ground instantly in the same fashion as if we had been flying in the air for our battle. We should be slowly sinking to the ground when knocked down or turn off movement mode. Having to chase enemies to the ground to finish them off has been a point of aggravation and bugs in the past as when enemies get a certain distance away from you they are no longer in combat and start to regen.
Also just for the aesthetics this should be fixed because it looks awful and ruins the immersion.

Well if you want heals or power or a tank people are going to have to go in as support roles and stay because you can't change armories in the open world of Atlantis.