Stat Piercing and Unlimited Pickups Have Ruined EEG Elite Content

Not End Game Elite content is stat clamped to +20 Combat Rating with full stat piercing as of GU 122. I fail to see how it invalidates our hard work we put into grinding for better gear, arts, augments, and SP. If anything, it allows us to keep that aspect of our hard work and efforts.

I am trying to understand your point of view, but I am confused. Are you advocating for zero progression above original DLC release of Elite raids? Do you object to improving your gear in current end game elite raids? How do you feel about going back into Long Live the Legion Convergence of Unmaking with current DLC level gear & stats? Is your experience similar or adversely different from not end game elite content?

I am satisfied with the improvements GU 122 brought. I find it a acceptable compromise between the pro-stat clamp camp and the anti-stat clamp camp. End game content will always provide the most difficult, most challenging experience.

Without a sense of vertical progression, running raids new or old felt like a waste of time. I don’t really enjoy group content, I only run it to get things I want from it, like character progression. Without the progression, it’s been very difficult to find the motivation to do it anymore.

Yea, there needs to be a consensus on how much to take off. In the case of EEG, you'd only be able take off enough until you get to the minimum stats that the instance will allow. There are also artifacts and allies to take into consideration as well, a 200 art is a significant difference from a 120 or no art at all.

Thanks for clarifying what you see as the difference, but in my experience it was easily done in under 10 minutes anyway, so the difference is pretty negligible.

You have to remember that the biggest anti-clamp argument was from people saying old elites would not get easier over time as they did previously… thus locking all but the very best players out of them. I’m not saying they haven’t possibly gone a little bit too far the other way, but whereever they pitch it, someone will complain. At this stage it is what it is, the complexion of old elite raids is a small element of the big picture. I was and am against the clamp, but on the whole, I do have more stuff to run and more incentive to run it.

Well you can’t downgrade an artifact and artifacts aren’t just about stats and additional overall effectiveness but also about playstyle. And again, getting all seven people to even agree to take gear off is already next to impossible before even getting to a discussion on what to take off. Hell, I don’t think I’ve ever had all seven group members actually respond, verbally or typed, to any statement I’ve made on any topic, even in full league runs.

I simply want all elite content to feel like elite content.

It still does.

From the end game player’s perspective, it doesn’t.

Actually, yes it does

Okay lol

There is no trivialization.
There is no ruining of elite.
This was an adjustment to help with Elite content after it went into the EEG Clamp.

The fact that you could smash it before it went into the clamp baffles me that you are complaining about it now. It was being completed before, how is the revives making a difference? This is an honest question. You feel cheated that you didn't have to wipe because a teammate was able to get up two times instead of wiping and doing over and over and over again until you get it right?

Also, I don't think you quite understand what the changes were, I'll link the patch notes, but essentially it had full piercing since an update from last year. The changes now were a little more CR increase to players, removal of some extra stats from NPCs, and the death limit removed.

This change has been a positive change to players who were otherwise locked out of content that was hardly being played, even by the elite. Most of the groups that could complete it before the clamp were able to complete the feats and were not running EEGe. All the ones that were not able to run the content would forever be locked out, because in the clamp, it was actually harder.

This did not ruin the game, it opened it up and there is replay-ability and longevity to all players.

If you want old elite content to feel like latest episode elite content, you're always going to be disappointed.

Hope that helps!

Well there are 22 and 30/100 skill points in elite raids and alerts in LoD, Flashpoint, LoS and elite StU. So theoretically, a player could get 695sp without ever stepping foot in anything that resembles elite content. Hmmm

Yeah. I'm no fan of the clamp, and do appreciate the fact that there is more of a 'progression' feel you can get once you 'over gear' the Elite a bit (not as much as it was....but not as tight as the original clamp).

The endless pickups though....not getting that at all. in that MOME run, people weren't exactly 'ignoring' mechanics...but there was no real punishment for making huge blunders as long as the majority were watching them. We only wiped a few times, generally because of an extremely bad start, rushing in and such, or someone left (happened a few times). Once we were 'in' and all paying attention, no amount of deaths were going to wipe the group.

It's not supposed to remain relevant to the point where it's providing you with your end game challenge, it's not the content for that and it's supposed to get easier for people.

The point of the clamp isn't to perpetually keep the content the same as you first experienced, which seems to be what you want.

You have new content for that challenge.

There is nothing wrong with stat piercing or unlimited pick ups.

I'm honestly shocked to hear you say that.

I imagine the change has caused some embarrassment. Before now, people had cover.

“Oh, brooo. I woulda got you; but one pick up limit, man. Just nothin I could do.”

I've been generally pretty consistent in my views Reinheld.

The clamp is supposed to prevent content from being trivialized and provide enough of a challenge to justify the reward of source marks.

None of the recent changes have allowed content to be trivialized.

People should not be going in to EEG Elite content looking for an original challenge, which seems to me, to be the incorrect perception DocElysian holds.

It's as if they're entirely shocked it got easier when that's exactly what is supposed to happen when you progress.

If you thought I was draconian in my views Reinheld, have a think about what's going in this thread, I'm all for the middle road, but this person actually wants to make your clamp harder LOL, you should be entirely and utterly opposed to anything DocElysian has to say and I'm assuming you are.

A true end game player doesn't need to step foot in old elites though. There perspective wouldn't be a fair opinion at that point

Oh, I'm for the piercing change, which actually does impact the 'clamp'. Removing the 2 knockout limit is not "clamp vs no clamp"...its removing a mechanic, which I also...have been very constant on in NOT liking. You can not overgear a one shot and let's face it, 90% of what makes an Elite run 'Elite' is the one shots. One shots are a mechanic that thins the group of those that cannot follow mechanics. This removes that (unless the whole group goes down at once). And yeah, removing mechanics DOES 'trivialize' the content...*cough TOTD*...just as much as being able to OP kill bosses did.