And that is what I'm talking about. You are better than general pugs. Most won't think twice about kicking for someone higher. Just like the old kicking problem, kicked before you even zone if you weren't in the role they wanted. Players just love to exclude other players because they have a notion of some level you need to be. After stats matter it will be a justified you must be this tall sign. I've seen it enough to know how our toxic player base works.
The system isn't broken though because players want to abuse it, you shouldn't withhold knowledge because people abuse that knowledge. Bearing in mind we're talking about a video game here
It's information we don't need to know. It's funny how we are talking about a video game and it translates well to real world issues that I won't get into here.
No, I merely said that because I knew you'd try to draw parallels with more serious global issues with what I said in terms of knowledge when obviously there are limitations to my statement, i.e. you obviously don't pass out knowledge involving nuclear technology. It was said that way to put it in perspective. We're talking about the ability to see someones skill points or soon to be stat points within the game. You may very well disagree, but I'm sorry I find it to be particularly relevant in terms of determining a persons dedication an effort in advancing their character. If someone is serious about playing the game they're not going to wallow around with sub par skill points and if I'm forming a raid that I want to suceed to i'm going to take the best people available to assure that success. Someone with low skill points shouldn't expect themselves to be taken seriously when they themselves aren't even prepared to put in the effort, quite clearly evidenced by their lack of action to complete feats. If they're not even prepared to complete feats why should I take them on a "feat" run for example in the first place, they'll probably just quit on the first failure, clearly indicated by the fact they don't take feat hunting serious in the first place. This is all judgements made upon them based upon their own actions or in fact lack thereof. If you can't be bothered to grind skill points then don't expect others to take you seriously as a result, it may be harsh to say but it's just the cold hard truth. And if people are so depserate to hide their lack of skill points then that says just as much of them (as in their shame in having low sp) as it does of the people that might make (an albeit reasonable in my view) judgement of them based on that fact.
If his was lower than average, he would not have made it into the group. And no I would never kick someone just because a higher SP shows up. Now if it was someone I knew, that's a different story. I'll kick a stranger to add a friend.
Combat rating and skill points are an aspect of DCUO quite important to actual gameplay. While skill points and combat rating do not necessarily reflect a player's skill level, it is safe to assume that given a general populace those with higher skill points/combat rating are more likely to do better/know what they're doing. "But where do you get this statistic from", cries someone on forums. You get this statistic based on a number of things. The fact that the majority of people with low skill points have power leveled through (more now than ever before thanks to that 100 cr token). Its an even bigger issue when you take into account that CR Differential is the big thing and still in effect. The fact that those with lower skill points have likely played less and that more often than not players with lower skill points are usually newer to the game. Skill points are an indicator of experience, time dedication, skill, and self challenge (obviously this does not apply if you're doing feats 50 cr later like some people, 50 being a guesstimate). Not saying people getting feats 20-50 combat ratings later or whatever the number may be means they don't have skill, they do, but it may not have been enough to get said feats 'at level' at that time. I'll stop on the getting "not at level" before this goes off topic into me bashing 240/250+ sp players that don't know what they're doing. To continue: The people in LFG are a general populace full of people that not everyone necessarily knows or has had previous experience with. There is no issue with the "system", its all dependent on the people that post in LFG. People in LFG aren't there to personally interview each and every single poster to determine whether they're an alt with low skill points (I have a few alts with low sp ), a legitimate novice, cr skipper, or high combat rating lazy skill point grinder. People in LFG asking for CR and SP may quite possibly also be looking for like minded people with the thought "Hey if Player X has this many skill points, he/she/it probably cares and is just as serious about this as I am." They might be the type of people that prefer the 'pug' giving it their all and knowing what they're doing for a faster/smoother run. And "knowing what they're doing" has a relation to these skill points. Why are we considered adults at 18+? Are there people younger than 18 that are more adult-like than plenty 20+s? Of course. Doesn't change the fact someone 18+ is generally more adult-like than someone below that age. Similar concept. Just the same there are people in LFG that don't care about your skill points or carrying you. I ask only for roles and combat rating when running Oly/GoM for marks for example and usually invite anyways. For feats, its either with leaguemates, friends, or LFG where I will ask for CR and SP because I'd rather not risk bringing in someone who does not know what they're doing or are possibly not skilled enough. And yes, I've played with 250+ sp players that are disgustingly terrible at the game, one was quite recent actually. Skill points and CR are definitely information we should have access to. They aren't nuclear launch codes, this is a game where this information can quite possibly assist you in assembling a group with greater chances of success. This is why there's Wavedox. In fact, I'd prefer to even see distinct feats. Not allowing access to this information does not impact those who don't care for pugs' stats but it does negatively affect those who do care. Having league mates, friends, etc is nice and whatnot but scheduling does not always work out. That is when people after feats or serious content use LFG. Not having access to this information would also rely on players to rely on each other's words, which I have absolutely no faith in these days. (Just look and laugh at the PS players scamming and getting scammed. These same people are expected to tell you the truth? Sure not all PS players are scammers but the point is its become a huge thing and it shows the lack of trust people have within the community. Another story for another time. ) Solution/TL;DR : If you don't like people asking for CR/SP don't respond to their posts. Find another group. LFG is where people assemble their own unique groups of their choosing. In general, higher skill points means you're more likely to have more experience/skill and you know what you're doing. Sure sometimes LFG groups are dumb or unnecessary and you have every right to laugh at them or say something (I know I do), but its also a game in which they have the right to form whatever kind of group they want.
To the OP, content can be hard or easy based on the group composition. Even the easiest raids can be failed by inexperienced players or noobs. Even today, I see CR 192 people struggle in DWF because they fail mechanics. It's important for those who ask for it and one or more person seeking information about another player to judge his competitiveness seems fair. Personally, I never ask for CR and SP when making a group but I don't object to such a call either. If someone is making a group seeking information on CR and SP before inviting, I gladly oblige. In fact, in some cases, I have observed that groups that simply look for roles without indicating a threshold requirement to be invited, quite often on one's response seek CR and SP even when they initially never called for it. Sometimes, I observe, that the caller himself is low CR & SP and so wants a strong group of players to carry him, most other times, people want to just make sure that people have some experience with the game and will not be a liability on the group. Low SP people in this thread have a counter argument about skill and it is quite valid, however, skill does not exist in abstentia of skill based achievement. If I see someone showing a skillful display, I immediately recognize the person and ordinarily if I were to be grouped with him or seek to invite him to my group, I shall do so without consideration for low SP or CR. The problem is that every low CR and SP character claims too often to be quite skilled and better than his counterparts. How does one figure out if they really are what they claim ? The other question is how should groups be formed if considerations such as CR and SP are arbitrary and should not be a criteria for forming groups?
How do you know if the person is not new and is working backwards to get his feats up? They unfortunately were not arround with the flow that we were. A significant number of content doesn't get run. As for feat runs? Are you just talking about them? As I'm talking about in general, not a specific feat. I've seen the revolving group makeup. "Your sp is too low. *kick*" thing on the villain side. The side that has way harder getting a group going to begin with. It comes down to it, players that need the content don't get to run the content for those feats because a single number is shown (CR) and will get worse when stats matter with a new number being center stage.
That's a double standard. What if your friend is the reason the group falls apart? You are obviously giving them a chance to try even if they are new and a lower SP/CR than someone else who might be higher. I understand the whole "my group, my rules" but the game is not rocket science. I know if you are doing elite or need a feat, okay, cherry pick the ones that might help as I've seen the whole "dude, why did you do that?!" thing personally, but in general gameplay most of the time it shouldn't matter.
It's not a double standard because I don't play with or associate with players who suck. If you suck, you go on ignore. If you don't suck, you get added to friend list. It's that easy. I'm not here to socialize, I'm here to play and get **** done.
people ask for cr because some content require mechanocs knowlefge or basic common sense to complete smoothly if at all and that's not even counting if there going for a feat. It takes time to aquire 250 plus cr means if ya didn't just buy the toon off some one you've probably been playing a while wich means at this point from all the long experience you've had ya probably know what your doing. this isn't the case in every case there are execptoins to every rule but the majority if the time the high sp players simply more expirenced than the low sp player unless the low sp player is an expeieced player on an alt then they can provbalby handle themselves ok no mater the sp or moding situation Sad to say but ya just cant pick up this game or any game and be a adequate player of the bat ya need time to learn and aquire the skill knowledge That saying that dosnt mean I wont run with ya but if I'm going for a tricky feat or tricky raid I'm gonna try and get some adequate to good player in it to get it done . especilay support roles expirence is key in a support role for dps I'm libable to not care as long as ya atleast provide support dps number but support role can be the key to finishing in reasonable time or not even finishing at all hell even lower content expiernce matters try getting the feats out of fatal exam once the mechanics are simple in there common sence but the majority of people I see going thru that have no idea how to do it even tho its pretty simple hell I got extra credit my second or 3rd day doing it when it first came out. stuff like tha is where expirence come in handy and unfortunately the only way we have to guage expierence when meeting a stranger in to a group for the first time is sp and mods dosnt all ways ring tru but its the only messure we realy have till we see them perform hell think of it like a job interview if ya go to your interview smelling bad an in dirty close and the next guy comes in to interview for the same job clean in a suit nice based on just appearance who da think there more likey to hire sp isn't realy about performance a skiled player can do a lot even with low sp and cr its a baut how you presnt yourself the first impression you make basicaly
I'm naturally talking about running difficult feats at level. If they're CR190 with 87 SP I see that as a problem and quite frankly they should be spending more time going back and sorting out the old feats they've skipped than completing feats at tier. Again you're asking me to take a leap of faith in terms of their skill level rather than using the SP indicator, I'm not sure why you're proposing it's reasonable to do this. The harder the feat run might be the higher I'm likely to push my SP indicator, this isn't because I want to exclude people it's because I want to ensure success. As previously pointed out as well those people with low sp could go back and grind out the feats they've avoided while leveling themselves up.
Again, if you are going for a feat, more power to you, but to always ensure success by snap judging on normal runs for marks or gear, that's the problem. I fear there is a disconnect between what I'm saying and what you think I'm saying. Also, a note on your CR 190 with 87SP, that's very unrealistic. Mostly because, I doubt anyone would take the time to even grind out the gear and if they did that, they would probably get past 87 or even 100 just by running the content. If someone had that, probably and alt that they were filtering the collections or materials to. 189 at 87 I can believe. ... I Just checked, there are two people at 190 and less than 88 SP. lol One is 66SP and the other is 79. lol Maybe alts by the names, but who knows. CR is king, maybe that got them motivated to get to 190 or something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't take me too literally, it was merely an expression of the point I was trying to make relating to "high cr, low sp". When I'm forming a group I want to ensure success as "best I can". That is done by forming an opinion of the people I am inviting based on what information I know. There's no justifiable reason to hide the number of skill points a player has, skill points are obtained solely by the player and if they're low that's on them as is the reason why they'll be judged for it. There's also no justifiable reason why I shouldn't judge a player based on their lack of desire to complete feats. Also to clarify if it's a run where I don't care and I know it's easy and won't fail regardless I will take people regardless of skill points.
First off stop trying to make "vet" a thing, it's not going to happen. Second of all reread what I said. If I am in a pug or LFG group and I come across a player who is absolute trash, he or she will find themselves on my ignore/personal black list. I never claimed to be psychic B
Given the number of experienced players that have high cr - low sp alts in the game I can't see how you come to this conclusion.
From playing the game for extended periods of time. Fact is, sp is not a definitive indicator of skill, not by any stretch BUT its the best indicator we have prior to sending the group invite. To understand statical probability is to understand that higher sp players are more likely to have been more content and more times to achieve it. Its not a guarantee, but the probability is in your favor.
