Reduced sourcemarks in fos3, why?

Yea, you debate noticeably more now LOL.

Do you really think those spam farmers will disperse to more content?


They will just move on to the next most profitable instance and spam that instead, whatever it may be. Even if all the raids could be re-adjusted for payout based on expected time, like they should, those farmers would just be spamming the most brain-dead one a.k.a. Sunstone Matrix.

GLF people for Necropolis Source Mark Spam, its still 10 marks boys! - PST

Oh crap I thought I was in game when I typed this, wrong chat where's the delete button edit edit, why did this somehow quote you, abort,, abort..

“Ok and?” is your response? The thing people don’t seem to understand is that this change is not about me or you or any individuals preferences. It’s about the game. A raid being run more for SMs than a raid that is under an event giving double source marks would raise red flags. It’s that simple.

People are really used to playing dc with cheesing all their way through.. the amount of crying for a simple change,ridicilous.

I was never a fan of doing multi runs to farm source marks. I agree that those rewards were overtuned. But instead of only nerfing the - for you - negative outliers, you should also consider to buff the outliers negative for us. Some raids take 20-30 minutes to complete, yet only reward 10 source marks. Those instances arent getting skipped-over upon omnibus queue pops because they're long, but because their rewards are far too low.

Just to be clear: I don’t run Omni and I spammed fos3 4x the 1st week and never did it again. I don’t need source and I have plenty to do in end game so take my opinion with that in mind.


Now I said it when the changes 1st came and I’ll say it again: put loot locks back. Don’t adjust anything. Groups will run fos3 then dd then necro. At that point either they run something else or go do bounties and fill those areas up. It’s really simple. No loot locks was the actual terrible idea. Keep solos duos and alerts on daily resets and weekly for everything else. Because these changes do nothing except maybe make people spam something else. Once it gets to the point of all the short ones having 6 sm, those will get spammed still anyway.

Everything still pays source so players can still farm, they just can’t spam. Seems terribly easy and far more likely to fix the issue of spams.

*sigh* You're right it's not about me. It's not about you. It's not even about the Source Marks. It's about choices. People choose to play whatever they want because that's what the game encourages: episodes went free to play, CR relevancy was lifted. But now all of a sudden there's a problem? There's an ecosystem? People spamming a five minute raid rather than suffering a raid with five minutes of cutscenes? *GASP* The audacity! The nerve! How dare people have individual preferences for what they want to play. How dare players log in and make their own decisions on what they want to run instead of participating in an event that didnt interest or engage them in the first place.... Such. An. Outrage...

Sorry not drinking the Kool aid on this one. An arbitrary change that harms no one to solve a fictional problem that upset nothing. Weird.

Yes it is about choices. People having to run FoS3 because it gave that much more marks per minute than a raid under double marks. So it was nerfed

Also, how exactly was the choice taken away? Can you not still run fos3? So you saying that no one is stoping me from running other raids, no one is stopping you from running fos

Truly a pointless change. Especially when double source comes around.

I'm a fan of Omnibus, an Omnibusibee if you will. Probably the second biggest draw that brought me back to the game last year.

Having said that, running between 5&10 Omni raid runs a night, I didn't find FOS 3 popping disproportionately causing me all that much annoyance, I didn't see that many complaints about it on the forums, and not a lot of rage quitting when we got into the instance. I found GOM popped a lot more frequently than FOS 3. I'm going to make the assumption that Mepps has access to stats that I don't have access to, and that in some corners of the office this was seen as a problem. From my perspective I don't think it was that big a problem.

Reading this thread, even the defenders of this decision are doing so with lacklustre enthusiasm. I'm sure someone can point one out to me, however, I don't recall reading a single "Finally, they fixed this!" response.

Of all the issues facing this game, I'm not sure this one required this blunt solution.

This is my sentiment exactly. People chose to play those raids because that's where they wanted to invest their time in the time/reward scale. The reason we all have the same list of 3-6 raids to run for marks is because those are closer to source mark equilibrium in terms of time to reward, NOT because they are outliers. The REST of the content is an outlier in which it takes a long amount of time for very few mark rewards. This is further exacerbated when you factor in the COST of what we spend source marks on.

Calculate how many source marks it takes to level up allies to max, artifacts to max and then calculate the TIME/Reward ratios that would make sense to achieve those totals via grinding. (This is also omitting the egregious/borderline predatory relative price of Source Marks on the marketplace compared to recent additions.)

When you calculate how much is needed (literally THOUSANDS for 1 legendary ally....) and realize that not only was the payout for the quick raids very reasonable, they are still pretty mundane on the GRAND scale of things when it comes to the costs of the ACTUAL economy in the game. (marketplace economy) This is the economy they care about more than whatever perceived economy they are trying to pitch here to us with the bandaid fix a year after Omni released.

You can't have a sliding reward/time scale, it's one thing or it's not. Devs set the pace with the costs of obtaining things in the game, player behaviour will show you what ratio of that scale engages us. If you buff up other stuff to the level of the same 3-6 raids people spam for Marks/hr than you will see much more variety in how people choose to spend their infinitely more valuable time.

This method of "altering our behaviour" simply sets us on a course to find the next best use of our time and not arbitrarily funneling us into less desirable EEG content. Omnibus content that isn't worth it will still get rejected for favourable content regardless of this change. Like some other problems in the game, the solution is not nerf what is fun to the ground but prop up and buff variety so people have more choices.

The can of worms is opened when you talk about how you are balancing off of some type of scale when the evidence shows the only scale you are balancing off of is the one that funnels people to purchasing the grind via MP Cash.

It can't be one time/reward scale on the client side and then clamping any type of in game grinding potential with a different scale on the user side.

As a singular event it might not turn people off enough to leave but I can tell you that when added to a pattern of behaviour which puts monetization FIRMLY ahead of enjoyment, entertainment, creative process etc....it is 100% enough to make people want to play other games indefinitely.

To avoid confusion, I put the dropped quotes back in, which makes it hard to read. I'm marking yours in yellow and mine in orange so no one attributes anything said to the other.

Wow...that's pretty weak. You take an example of what I would accept in Omni....1 time on a toon to get the box, something I've said I do many times...as some discovery of me 'spamming'. Again, it seems like maybe math is hard. 1 time a week per toon is NOT spamming. Spamming is repeatedly running the same thing....and the reason for this change. Oh....wait, that was a goal post you changed. Gotcha.

You point out that I'd be fine running FOS3/DD every time...again 1 time a week for the box, per toon. NOT spamming. Big find there...I've said as much this thread. And if you go back, I've always said I'm fine with the penalty....and will take the 1 min every time. I believe ^^^this was a discussion of a theoretical system where we could pick certain runs for omni, so yeah, if we are spitballing, sure I'd like no penalty and my 'go to' omni list. Just because I'll take the penalty, doesn't mean I look forward to it. And in that same message I also said such a system wouldn't work.

You were calling me a liar that I had 1000's of source pre clamp. I see nothing here that proves otherwise, and the little fact I did have 1000's of marks pre clamp....yeah, that too.

Again, completely out of context. The discussion was about how in some instances (and you say you end up doing this too sometimes with your 'battle' loadouts), I might be soloing or duoing at the end. Again, if the point is that everyone participates, everyone should have to participate, otherwise what's the point....to just make stuff slower? Weeeee! Not sure how me solo finishing a raid while 6 or 7 do nothings sit outside is good for the 'eco-system', but eco-systems do need fertilizer....

You pulled that from a discussion on runs I won't run due to mechanics. I actually say I wouldn't want mechanics removed from old content to make them easier, unless I was getting an unclamped (therefore no loot) version I could solo. HERE's the full conversation. But the pertinent part is this....which you snipped off.
"Clamp or no clamp....not half-bassed clamp that just takes forever and provides no real difficult challenge....only longer runs." I'm actually defending the clamp here really. Ick.

Had to go back to Jan for this one....closer to last Aug than today. Yes....I plenty used to ask for the clamp removal or a no clamp option (with no 'relevant' loot of course). And yeah, the decision to make the clamp 15 when the differential between say FP content and 'max' cr is 40-50 (57 actually right now) and yet we are still getting paid full in those runs today....was a bit confusing. Still don't see anywhere in ANY of this where I ask for full loot + no clamp.

Again, your reading comprehension is in question. In a discussion about 'spamming' a run you go to posts about acceptable Omni runs or removal of the clamp AND loot. I've said several times I'm fine with FOS3 or DD popping in omni. I've said I'll continue to accept those runs in my 1 a week (per toon) omni raids even if they removed ALL the marks....cause I'm not there for the marks, but the box. Sorry bud...that's not spamming. Try again with your 'gotcha's.

Just a refersher on what got this started. You said....
"The constant daydream you keep living is "take away the clamp, take away the loot lock""

Not sure which one of these I say remove the clamp and still give me the full loots....but I'm sure it's in there somewhere...in your interpretation at least.

Have I asked for the removal of the clamp....yeah, not denying it. I was one of the louder people on the subject when it was announced. Am I asking for it currently, nope....I've adapted to it to serve my needs. However, as pointed out MANY times now, I'd challenge you to find where I say 'remove the clamp, but give us the full loot'. Or not. I'm not sure you can comprehend that directive exactly. I'm sure you'd come up with another dozen quotes that DON'T say that.


I'm sure this will be the last few posts on this subject as it will be shut down, and as you have obviously decided NOT to actually address what you said (or 'insinuated') and are changing the subject to fit what you COULD find, I'll step off on this one. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. In an argument with a brick wall....the wall always wins.

I read this, and I immediately recalled an old aphorism, if the only tool in your tool box is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Yes, as they should. Because there's NO reason that endgame players should be forced to play old content that they've already done for years. That's just not good game design. This is an objective fact, and no other MMO does this. It makes no sense to force your end game players to run content that hasn't been relevant to them for years if they don't want to.

It is not the job of an end game player to go back to old content and teach new players how to play. It is the job of the developers to streamline the process so that new players understand what they're doing. That is the change that's been needed for years.

I don't know how certain people here aren't understanding this, lol.

Who exactly is forcing you to run old content? There are players who don’t do older content and just stick to EG.

Key world is “almost.” You’re delusional if you read through this thread and think otherwise.

Again, I don't personally spam these raids. But it's the principle. Nerfing content being done by EG players for the purpose of wanting them do other old content to fix "the ecosystem" isn't logical.

Proxy and Reinheld always going at it y'all need to kiss and get a room or something XD ...just kidding maybe

I actually read all that lol, and tbh you guys are fr nitpicking at each other for the wrong reasons. You both might have different perspectives, but you also have a LOT of common ground. Just an outside observation.