ZOE Whiners rejoice!!

I still don't believe the Devs would nerf ZOE on forum whine alone. There is no conclusive evidence that "Forum whine equals nerf" as we haven't seen a big Fracture or Striker nerf yet, might still come - i'll survive it when it happens. You won't see me on the Forums crying.

Speculatively, the Devs see that VS Max has highest K/D before Zoe but is least used. After Zoe the K/D appears to have gone up according to the statements made by Higby, also the People actually using VS Maxes has gone up significantly. Then they fixed the Momentum with Zoe and let it run for a while. Apparently there hasn't been much of a change, so my guess would be they go from there.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/game-balance-and-forumside.133953/

Because I can't be bothered repeating myself

Glowing pink makes you a hell of a lot more noticeable, that coupled with the fact that glowing pink = "hello everyone! I'm a max that takes 20% EXTRA DAMAGE".... yeah, they're much more likely to shoot you rather than the not glowing max next to you.

^No i want ZOE to be a JUSTIFIABLE alternative to charge. If it's main advantage is moving fast then we already have something much better for that.

To be honest I'd want ZOE to be thrown in the ******* bin and have the old PS1 ability.... but i guess even VS light assaults would cry rivers on the forums if that happened.

Hang on....

Here's the transcript from the video you sent me

Yet now you agree with me? Does that mean you're also an insanely idiotic rambling incoherent person?
Because if that is not the case then that would make you a hypocrite.

What does your "believing" have to do with the cold hard numbers in those queries? If you really think there is no "conclusive evidence" of QQ based nerfing ingame, I'll give you a few examples: The great Tankmine whine of 4 months, the great magrider whine of the last 8 months that resulted in nerfing to crap then undoing the nerfing, the nerfing of the reaver shotgun, the ninja nerfing of Lib airframes and introduction of bullet drop. The list is pretty endless once you start to use that site I posted the stats from!

Facts are facts: Max AV weapons considered the Comet is the 6th, with TR and multiple NC weapons above it. Max AI weapons considered the cosmos is 7th and the "oh so OP" Blueshift is 12th.

Please tell me based on those numbers how the ZOE BOOSTED damage ends up so low? How can a plain ole fracture be No1 compared to the "UBER OP ZOE" boosted Comet? You can believe what you want, you cal also argue with me endlessly about this but you arent arguing with me, youre arguing with the hard numbers of those stats. Stats show why I say ZOE is getting nerfed because foum whining, if you have any concrete fact/number based argument about that please go ahead and convince me. Believing wont do tho..


Speculatively, youre on the wrong track like most of the people who try to cover this argument with "but VS Max had the highest KD". The reason for the huge K/D on VS maxes goes back to the fact that in the last 7 months before ZOE the majority of VS pulled Maxes for AA. The AV and AI roles were completely neglected due to the laughably bad AI and AV weapons VS ended up with. The nature of AA MAx as Im sure you know is behind the frontlines engaging air outside infantry render range all the way to 1km. That results in high KD because youre not in the line of danger, youre invisible to air and you can cover 1-2 hexes around you with double bursters. You get the kills but you dont get the deaths, its that simple....

As for Highby saying the VS max use gone up significantly I cant see it as anything suprising. VS has been going for 7months with a horrible Max eyperience outside AA, literally the only competitive weapon for theVS max was the universal Burster arm. Now we got ZOE that adds speed and arguably minor damage increase for the price of 120% damage taken. It is natural that everyone will gravitate towards the new stuff and gives it a go, especially when the benefits are front loaded on the cert tree AND it makes VS competitive at the AI/AV front too.

Lol, i scoff at thee

Do you actually believe we think that VS max is the same as before? It was pretty bland and boring and not really good at anything except a buff to armor for a medium HA without the versatility. Of course K/D would go up when it gets a buff. What's wrong about that? I would also like to see the invested certs/sc that has gone into VS maxes since ZOE, the mean level of max % certed is probably up by a few 100%...

Higby is also not my preferred choice of statistics. If you have any other source based on the census api i would happily eat it up. Cause frankly i think he made it up

The ironic thing is I don't see the ZOE problems ending with these nerfs.

The real issue is the strafing speed and hit detection. Being able to side step faster than infantry while shooting and dodging rockets is what's game breaking. So it takes 30% extra damage now instead of 20%? Big whoop when it tip-toes around Decimator rockets while being trailed by Engies. It will still take two rockets to kill the MAX, and it can dodge them just as well as ever.

If you look at the PS2 dev team photo, you'll see a small group in the back wearing VS shirts, I mean small like 9 people?

VS isn't very well liked for some reason.

There are two devs who play TR.

TWO!

And they're both in the Enclave I hear.

Ah, ok, so the new justification the nerf-herders are using to make themselves feel better is, it's not a nerf - its a "fix". Ah, ok. Well, whatever helps you to feel better about yourself.

And so by your logic, hey, let's just take away ALL VS weapons, because if we do that it'll prove once and for all who the REAL VS players are (whoever those are) and not just people playing VS because they want to, for some reason.

Is this horrible thread still going?

Yes, ZOE WHINERS. Have you even looked at the forums over the last MONTH? Is was NON-STOP Nerf ZOE, everywhere.

Oh, I guess now that it's happened, how it happened just doesn't matter.

And like I said in one of my prior posts, I didn't start this thread to defend ZOE I don't play maxes so I don't really care. I started the thread to call attention to the constant cries for nerfs that are a plague on this game. Because anyone that gets killed by something they think they shouldn't have, they come out here and whine about it until its nerfed. Which is exactly what happened with ZOE.

A lot of the morons crying for nerfs of ZOE don't even know that strafing speed has ALREADY been nerfed.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

That is all.

How about dev bias? And don't go discrediting that right away, i want you to really think about it.

Magrider gets nerfed to hell while the other vehicles get buffed. It took them several months to finally revert a bit of that nerf. ESRL get released and the Lancer is absolute **** at launch. It took them a few weeks to finally bring it somewhat up to par. The Vortex gets released and is further nerfed, despite not being all that good in the first place. ZOE gets released which was truthfully rather OP, but as much after the ADAD fix. They proceed to nerf it to the ground with the patch in discussion. They are about to nerf the Lasher as well, which is also a subpar weapon. One of the patches also introduced the inability for Scythes to hover while facing down, which they have yet to even so much as acknowledge.

Meanwhile, TR gets an OP Striker, which is further buffed by the new missile pathing ( not sure if its a bug or not, but it's been in the game far too long for a major bug ), while it's actually in a dire need of a balance pass. Then there is fractures which also don't get touched at all.

I can give you a full list of these, but then i can just make a whole new thread about it because it will be so long.

The point is, SOE obviously prefers keeping VS from getting anything that might even remotely be good and takes high priority to nerf the faction over the other two. Prove me wrong if you disagree.

Hey brainiac, strafing speed on ZOE was nerfed a few weeks ago.

You all see what I'm talking about now with this crap?

You stay classy there.

And ignore is a very wonderful thing.

When you intend on replying to someone make sure you don't type in the area that says quote before hand. That's where people put the big words you have a hard time reading in.

too be certain you took this into account.

VS MAX's were only used as AA batteries before ZOE they had the best K/D because logically, something that only shoots at aircraft dies significantly less then something out in the field, and thus the positive K/D was born.

So, let me get this straight: I'm a hypocrite because i can agree with you on one point which was not mentioned in your first post and which in essence has nothing to do with what you actually did write in your first post. Oh-kay. Have a pleasant life.

Yes, that is possible.

As we don't have any access to the data the devs are using it is hard to say.

It would at least be nice if they gave some explanation on the actual reasons for a Major nerf somewhere.

Anyway, i mentioned before that i find the ZOE nerf on the testservers to harsh. Its like the Magrider Nerf all over again, imo.

I like how you ignore everything I say that you can't refute. I still have to see you prove to me that not every damn TR is using the OP striker. Thing mentioned in the post you called completely idiotic.
I also like how you called idiotic the fact that every vanu had the saron (how often do you see a magrider without a saron?) despite the fact that it was buffed recently.

That said, you are an hypocrite. You called the fractures decent then you agree they are OP. Apparently your standard of a decent weapon is an absurdly OP one, which further proves my point (again made in the post you criticize) that it's not just us vanu who won't use something unless it's absurdly OP.