You've got it wrong on MAX units, devs.

Discussion in 'MAX' started by MaxDamage, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. MaxDamage

    You've priced them out of the game despite NO ONE asking for these changes.

    First you disable MAX ability to use instant action or hotdrop, without any alternative offered.
    It is easy to argue against them having these features in theory, but when the feature is not empire restrictive - it can never be called "imbalanced".

    Then you give TR the worst special ability which was strategically useful in the original Planetside with indoor combat, but is ******* pointless in PS2 and its only goddamn saving grace was supposed to be strength against air. It is not, yet you weakened it further anyway with GU11.
    *golf clap*

    Now the 3x + increase in necessary resources to spawn a MAX.

    Obviously as a primarily MAX unit based player through PS1 and 2 I now have no interest in playing and haven't done for the past few weeks.

    These are not "MAX" units, you need to make them STRONGER if you are going to impose these ridiculous restraints.

    Until that time comes, I'm done with this game - the updates are little more than filler, garbage cosmetics and steps backward now. If I was more of a regular infantry player or vehicle hero I guess I'd be loving the game still, but this step only cements the idea that you want Battlefield/CS/COD dollah.

    The game is still impressive in many respects, and if you're enjoying it, great, but personally the more time I've spent after stepping back, the more I see it as the uninspired, uncreative, money-churning machine it is. I would highly recommend more players do so.

    Why is it that even the interiors use exterior textures?
    The art direction in this respect is ugly as crap, boxy, generic and repetitive beyond belief.

    You can't keep hoping a game will live up to your expectations, when even compared to a 10 year old game, they aren't being met; perhaps largely because of restrictions related to the unfortunate free-to-play model.

    I'm not an important player, a particularly good one or anything, and more people on my server would cheer "good riddance" than "goodbye", so this isn't an ego rant.

    Just tuppence.
    • Up x 10
  2. Warhawx

    Yeah, if MAX costs 350, ESF and lightning should cost 450, and MBT500

    And even then, that'll turn Planetside 2 into a boring game. It seems the Devs don't get it. People play PS2 because they like the vehicles/MAX that the game offer, especially the amount that it offers, which is an innovation from most other FPS games. They don't play Planetside 2 just to buy a gun with different numbers and models, run around a map and frag each other to see who has better aim. Increasing vehicle resource costs only takes away from what makes this game fun. I mean, I bet if you take all the vehicles out of the game, no one would be playing this.
    • Up x 4
  3. Skadi

    inb4 QQ from scrubs who stand in max suits faces.
    • Up x 1
  4. PieBringer

    I'm not certain if anyone asked for this change, HOWEVER, what I AM certain of is that there were a few different posts claiming the new MAX abilities or weapons weren't imbalanced, that it was MAX units, and that people were just noticing more since so many more were pulling them to try out new things.

    Maybe this multiplying their cost by 3.5 is SOE's way of "reducing the spam" of something that was very powerful (when used correctly) in response to all the whi- Ahem... I mean feedback.
  5. CaptainRobust

    I think they went the wrong way about it, but I'm also not about to complain about seeing less MAX units on the field. The MAX is still a viable piece of kit, and is still incredibly powerful. You just can't be super-rambo and expect to pull 30 of them in an hour is all.
  6. Warhawx

    You never could pull 30 of them in an hour. Pre nerf they cost 100 resources, and respawn timer prevents that.

    It's not overpowered if it costs as much as a galaxy and you can run it over with a flash.

    Yeah, I'm pissed that my 8000 certs just went down the drain. In fact, I'm going to put off playing Planetside 2 until they change this because I don't want to play a crappier version of futuristic battlefield 2.
    • Up x 5
  7. CaptainRobust

    I've yet to be run over by a Flash, but I'll take your word for it.

    30 was an exaggeration, clearly. This nerf was probably more meant for the anti-infantry role more than the AV/AA role, since you could survive for a good long time as both of those, provided you're not standing in a stupid place.

    Take a MAX into a Biolab or any close quarters environment and you'll see that they're as strong as ever. There's just an actual risk involved when pulling one.
  8. Warhawx

    Actual risk? I rolled max 3 times, each time racking up kills by playing smart and surviving about 10-15 minutes every time before I was ordered to redeploy. Even the, it still costed too much.

    Risk implies that it may or may not go wrong for me. But it doesn't matter- even if you play perfectly, you're not going to be able to economically support running dedicaded max.
    • Up x 1
  9. Jac70

    It's a decent change - stops the scrubs who want to stomp around in the low risk/high reward mech suits from spammin the life out of them. They can still be pulled but you have to look after them.
  10. Warhawx

    The thing is, it doesn't only stop scrubs. It stops everyone. Even if you look after them for 20 minutes, you still won't have the resources to keep running them. There's already a mechanic in place to prevent spam- the respawn timer. So yeah, if you can't pull them every 10 minutes, I don't think it's spamming.

    Don't you understand? If you keep your MAX alive for a significant amount of time pre-patch, you can instantly jump into it again should you die. It takes skill to do that. Well, either that or sit around in a safe place and wait for the cooldown timer. Right now, I would even accept the cooldown timer to start AFTER I die, simply because I can pull more than 2 maxes that way. If the timer starts after I die, it won't make certing into cooldown timer useless as well, since it will actually do its job to reduce the time before I can MAX again, instead of the current system where you won't be able to pull another max after dying/redeploying twice even if your cooldown timer is done. I'm sure people who don't invest in the MAX won't notice it, but for people like me- it hurts a lot.

    The only way I can accept this is to buff it to vehicle levels, better than ESF or Lightning, as well as immune/highly resistant against ramming damage seeing that it costs 100 more resources, as much as a galaxy.
    • Up x 4
  11. Kulantan

    I don't know where this idea came from. I wanted MAX/vehicle/air rotation spam nerfed. I didn't think resources, but only because they have always been so useless. As soon as I saw the change notes I agreed that it was at least a nice attempt at a fix.

    They balanced it on score per resource. MAXs perform better than Lightnings and ESFs in the current game because they can go inside to farm there. If you want a MAX with tank health and damage then they'll have to make it as big as a tank.
  12. UnDeaD_CyBorG

    Score per resource?
    My longest streak so far is 49 with a UBGL, and the score per resource is infinite, because it costs me nothing.
    Given that a concussion grenade, for example, produces practically no score at all, yet may result in a significant slaugtherfest for the entire squad, makes score per resource a very faulty mechanic.
    Mind you I don't criticize the changes themselves, as I haven't played since the patch yet.
    But while my K/D was certainly very good in a MAX suit, my score / minute wasn't any higher than in a heavy, or light assault, and my offense above 20 meters was worse than any Infantry class, as well.
    The pure score per resource is a bad balancing mechanic.
  13. Warhawx

    Why should they be nerfed? The only reason they can spam it reliably is that they put a significant resources into upgrading their tanks/max/air. You at least need a weapon alternative for the default ESF gun, which costs 1000 certs. Depending on the tank, you may have to spend a lot of certs, but usually no less than 1000 certs. MAX, on the other hand, needs at least 1000 certs to go anti-air, or 2000 certs to go anti infantry/vehicle.

    Other people paid the price to make their things better, and now you're saying that they should be equal to the people who have spent nothing? Yeah, maybe the MAX resource increase was warranted for, but increasing it to 350% the original cost is way too much. A max with max flak can only take 1 direct hit from a HE round and die. And lightnings costs 100 less. MAX should cost less than tanks/ESF, period. Resources have never been useless. They have always been used to get things, and the original cost meant that they can sustainably use these resources if they use it sensibly.

    MAX perform better than lightnings and ESF? So what? Lightning/ESF vs MAX on equal skill, MAX lose. Thus, MAX should cost less. MAXes are good, but they certainly worth far less than 350 resources.

    The bottom line is- if you agree with the nerf for the MAX to be worth as much as a galaxy, then you obviously don't play MAX seriously and don't invest any significant amount of resources into it.
    • Up x 2
  14. Kulantan

    I agree, however it is a good start. Previously costs were just based on what the designers though might be good. The costs now are at least informed by performance in most cases.

    This is the first step in moving away from a balancing philosophy that says if you want something to be pulled less you make it less attractive. Rather now I hope we are moving to controlling numbers by controlling supply rather than making units unfit for purpose.

    Rock should cost more than scissors but less than paper. Also if that MAX has busters then an ESF of equal skill should be worried.
  15. Xocolatl

    Agreed. It's not perfect yet, but it shows that the Dev listens and are willing to re-evaluate the game as needed.
  16. Xasapis

    It can always gets worse. They can make maxes unrezzable.
  17. SirLmot

    Alright lets do this....

    No, your information is just wrong.

    ESF rotary = 250 certs, buy first level of stealth as well = 30 certs. Viable A2A combat fighter.

    Tanks, spend 250 certs on your ES Secondary, increase effectiveness tenfold. Add in 100 certs for ability slot and you'll generally be effective if you know how to use your Empires tank properly.

    MAX, 250 certs for the high capacity guns, both arms will be 500 in total. AI effectiveness is multiplied. AA and AV, still expensive 1000 certs for each upgrade, this is true. Leave the tanks to other tanks, or HA and LA who can sneak round them, always personally thought the MAX is too big, too slow and too weak to engage armor except from long ranges. This is how it should remain.

    On Topic:

    This change makes complete sense, the ability for a large outfit to organised a platoon worth of MAXs hot dropping on a location was and remains a very dumb idea. Calling something imbalanced doesn't just relate to Empire vs Empire, also got to keep the experience fun for randoms not in outfits or particularly organised.

    Please tell that to the fracture MAXs I've seen using it to decimate armor columns. It's not the worst just cos you can't use it properly. Hell I thought the NC shield was pretty awful at one point, till I learned when and when not to use it.

    No. Just no. Get some engineers and a medic to revive you. Had a squad mate the other day who went 117 - 5 in 30 minutes in his MAX because we supported him. They are strong enough. MAX suits do not, and should not, make you god. They still need some skill to utilize to their full potential.

    In conclusion: After they introduced the abilities the number of MAX suits being pulled was frankly boring. It made fights into slog fests between large groups of MAXs, as infantry or a MAX yourself, it was god damn dull. Now with the new costs, apart from a few newbys, I find myself coming up against less scrubs, less noobs, but more dedicated MAX operators that give me a challenge and an interesting fight! (Well that is except the VS ZOE Comet spammers, that's still boring as hell).

    If you can't see the benefit of this change to the overall gameplay, then I'm sorry sir, but you are truly and utterly lost. It is perhaps a tad to high as it stands, especially because Inf resources are stretched across grenades, mines ect. But, as they stated in thepatch notes, it is all subject to tweaks. Stop being a ***** just because they are trying to balance the spam and you can't adapt.
  18. Liewec123

    if they want to make them cost as much as a tank i'd like to be treated as such, with the RIDICULOUSLY high price we should have alot more survival, the colossal pricetag should imply we'd be immune to small arms fire like any other expensive tank.
    (obviously that would be OP but that would be worthy of such a freaking ridiculous pricetag.)
    • Up x 1
  19. Arkos

    Why not make the resource cost for a MAX suit come from the mechanized resource pool? As someone said earlier, there are already so many things that depend on infantry resources, many of them things you will use at least once every 2-3 lives if not every life (C4, tank mines, AP mines, medkits, grenades). Possible solution.
  20. Jkar

    Perhaps it's time to go back to the beta resource system where you didn't have air / mech / inf resources but alloys, catalysts and polymers to spread out consumables and vehicle costs.

    From beta:
    Polymers are used to spawn the Lightning and faction specific aircraft (1 man, light assault vehicles).
    Catalysts are used to spawn the Liberator and faction specific MBT’s (mostly 2 person, heavy assault vehicles).
    Alloys are used to spawn the Galaxy, Flash, and Sunderer (mostly support vehicles).

    Different infantry consumables were also drawing from different resources, I can't remember exactly but I think something like tank mines would come from catalysts, frag grenades from alloys and such. This system will probably work a lot better to cut down on vehicle / MAX rotation and spam while also not totally screwing over dedicated MAX and vehicle operators.