Your dynamic infantry rendering solution hit critical mass last night.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Flarestar, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Flarestar

    Reposting this from another thread, because the other threads have fallen by the wayside and this was bad enough that it really needs a thread all to its own.

    Someone was complaining (again) about tech plants, and brought up rendering distance. Part of my response below. Please, read it, and keep this thread active. This issue cannot be allowed to go on - if that means they need to buy better hardware, or reoptimize the engine, then that's what needs to happen, or they need to start capping the number of players that can get into an area somehow.


    Again, not a problem with tech plants. However, it is a massive problem for the game as a whole, and it can and does cripple gameplay. It's more noticeable on tech plants because fights take longer there due to the aforementioned people are ******** and terrible at anything but zerg tactics. A good example is about five minute ago. We had been holding Eisa Tech Plant for the last three hours against alternating assaults by TR and NC. Not because we were more skilled, or more numerous. But because of the rendering distance.

    Put simply, dynamically scaling infantry rendering distance was the worst possible way you could have handled the issue of server load. Not only does it almost completely cripple an entire class (infiltrator), it also progressively makes combat impossible at any range other than point blank. By the time we finally lost the tech plant, the number of people in the area was so high that the rendering distance was literally the width of one of the catwalks.

    Read that last paragraph again. Not the length. The width. We're talking literally two seconds of movement time sprinting, if even that. Beyond that, no infantry existed. No friendlies, no enemies, nothing. Combat at that point quite literally became just volleying grenades at where we thought the other team was, and they were doing the same thing. Why? Because you can't kill what you can't see with normal weapons. You have to use something that spawns an actor in the world, because those are handled server-side, whereas bullet hits are handled client-side. We were literally only holding the tech plant because their superior numbers (once our side finally left and I could see most of theirs, they almost were carpeting the upper level and a good chunk of the lower) *couldn't see us to shoot us and most of us were avoiding the likely areas for grenades to land.*

    It's unfortunate, because it's something that will only become a more frequent problem if the population continues to increase.

    This should, at this time, be the absolute top priority. And I do mean top - compared to this issue, periodic lag, random memory leaks that require the occasional restart, and a small number of users having crashing issues are miniscule problems. This is an issue that will cripple gameplay and drive away users in droves if it's left to go on.
    • Up x 35
  2. CrushBoss

    Beta was never like this, after a few late patches i tweeted Smed about this issue, as you can imagine, i never got a reply.

    Edit: Just checked my Twitter : 14 November was when things got really bad.
  3. Pugzii

    Grenades are handed locally too.

    You throw a grenade, this explodes, it then checks who was hit by it on your LOCAL MACHINE and relays that to the server.

    This is also how it works for Liberator cannons etc, that's why when you fire at where the enemy are, but cant see them, you get no kills.. because LOCALLY there is no one there..
    • Up x 9
  4. TartarusMkII

    I don't doubt anything you've said, but I want to ask: How are you sure that the method described above is the actual method for render distance? I may have missed something.
  5. Flarestar

    Depends on the vehicle gun, actually. Some are hitscan, some are not. Hitscan ones only hit if the person rendered. The others (the M60 Bulldog comes to mind) will damage unrendered targets just fine.

    Grenades are not. There was a virtual hail of them last night flying out of and into completely empty air, and I can assure you they were killing just fine.
  6. Flarestar

    Because SOE confirmed rendering distance was scaled dynamically at the server in another thread.
  7. Fox234

    Yeah it makes sniping impossible. I was messing around last night at the crown and you couldn't use a sniper rifle for beans. People kept turning invisible which meant they were invincible. Even if I knew where they were my bullets wouldn't hit anything. I know its a new engine but come on. At this rate the game will need 6 months of pure engine work.
    • Up x 2
  8. roarknoone

    I don't believe any words can describe how ... game breaking? this issue is. I am playing a first person shooter except there's a catch, I can't see my enemies! I am playing on a large land mass, but there's a catch, I can't see my enemies until they are within 10 meters of me, at which point my 'playfield' is effectively a 10x10 box surrounding me. It's like a whack a mole mini game!

    Not joking or exaggerating either, had a three way at a tech plant not too long ago where this was the case. It was so fun I logged off in disgust.

    The game is decent and has room for improvement. I am, however, completely boggled (jackie chan boggle pic here) how anyone came up with-- let alone decided to go with-- a system in which players are close but you're completely unable to see them. In a fighting game. A fighting game with guns. You know, guns. Those things that can hurt players at distances. Distances that other players I might decide to shoot at will not be rendered at.


    April fools must have come early.
    • Up x 8
  9. MisterMorden

    planetside 2 advertising: massive battles and exactly this is not possible with "dynamic rendering".
    it is also annoying to fly and not seeing the enemy until he is under you.
    if this will not be improved many people will leave planetside 2 after some months, so i really hope the devs will manage this.
    • Up x 3
  10. Vixus

    As an infiltrator with an awesome 12x scoped bolt action rifle that has quite the long reload timer I tend to find myself most comfortable at least 1KM or more from the guy that I want to put to involuntary sleep. Anywhere the zerg arrives would should be like being a kid in a candy store for any sniper, but if all the candy and bright colors and sweet scents from inside that very store disappear, the kid will cry, and so do I as an infiltrator when my completely oblivious stationary target is granted the power of becoming invisible while I'm still lining up my shot.

    EDIT: My current infiltrator loadout consists of an assault rifle with a silencer and a reflex sight, and some bouncing betties. This is not how I -want- to play infiltrator, this is how I am being forced to play infiltrator. Still is fun though, because most of the time I feel like the TF2 spy.
    But it's RONG.
    • Up x 4
  11. Skiidzman

    Keep this thread going guys. It is one of my biggest annoyances as well. It's not fun getting killed and not even seeing where the enemy is. If I have to act like one of those deep sea fishes with a light strapped to the top of my head and hope to hell I hit something.... There is something wrong.

    Rendering distance should be the same. For every player. Period.

    This is not world of panda bears. It's a freaking MMOFPS. Fix it.
    • Up x 2
  12. Vixus

    • Up x 1
  13. Gaarthar

    change the dynamic rendering and people will start crying their prehistoric PCs cant handle it, fps too low , etc.

    buy better hardware first. i see people complain their "radeon 3850 which is a good card and is able to run BF3" cant handle the game...while it doesnt even pass the minimal reqs.
  14. Timujingeo

    Last night we had a massive fight at Tumas with our old friends the TR. As word got round it developed into a meat-grinder but it became almost unplayable due to this rendering issue and has been mentioned the only weapons that works is the grenade.

    I would hazard that literally thousands of grenades were used as normal weapons were simply useless. This needs addressing ASAP as it's a game-breaker for game-play.
  15. Obest

    I haven't came across this one myself, but it sounds disturbing, I'll see if I get similar problem when I get a chance to hop in the game.
  16. Vixus

    Go try to attack a tech plant while the zerg are mindlessly pounding it. You'll experience the quality of the rendering solution first hand.
  17. Zeritor

    Pilots are facing another related problem: Friendly/Enemy aircraft not rendering until 10 feet in front of you. I don't even play near the Zerg and this happens. You'll be flying along in clear skies, when suddenly 6 ESF, a few libs and a gal will suddenly be visible. Did I mention one of those ESFs is right in front of you and you have no hope to dodge? Then you take out yourself and a team mate...
    • Up x 3
  18. Vixus

  19. PS2 MEDIC

  20. Flarestar

    • Up x 1

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