Yes We Canister! Save the C85!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Sagabyte, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. Sagabyte

    The canister right now is arguably the worst weapon in the game save for the lasher. It barely does it's own job well and is shadowed by the kobalt in almost any way possible. This is due to the fact that the canister is inaccurate, low capacity, and limited at range. Sure it can mutilate targets less than 10m away, but it's suicide for a tank to venture that close to infantry. Regardless of how well it does there, a well-placed basilisk or kobalt could do that to the same effect. What the Canister needs is heavy buffs to make it shine as a shotgun strapped to the NC's vehicles.

    Statistical Changes:

    Damage: 125x12 @ 12m, 85x12 @ 46m (Harasser) | 125x12 @ 16m, 85x12 @ 50m (Vanguard).

    Resistance Changes: All heavy armor can be damaged by the weapon, but the cannon deals only 10% damage.

    Magazine Size: 16 default, 18 when upgraded.

    Firing Angles: Maximum firing angle increased to 65° whilst aiming upwards. Now you can hit that pesky C4 fairy!

    Pellet Spread: 1.3 (Harasser), 1.25 (Vanguard). The Harasser variant isn't very much more accurate (.03 pellet spread reduction), but the MBT version has a very accurized spread to compliment it's more bulky frame and medium range focus.

    Reticle: Acts as a shotgun reticule to more properly show CoF and allow for better aiming.
    With these changes, the canister will absolutely slaughter people that attempt to even venture in it's general direction and on more rowdy vehicles such as the Harasser will wipe groups of packed infantry with relative ease. It isn't going to be the obvious choice for the Kobalt will always be better at suppression and ranged fights, but it will be a good tank defense/hard assault cannon useful for mowing down poor chaps caught in the canister's (more effective) sights.

    Also, #yeswecanister.
    • Up x 6
  2. Goden

    This doesn't give me confidence in your proposed changes
    • Up x 3
  3. Pikachu

    If you're gonna fix C85 ffs give it the same damage it used to have! 250x12. None of this 125 BS! Maybe add more pellets.
    • Up x 1
  4. Epic High Five

    Quadruple mag size, un-Higby the damage range a bit, make armor damage match the PPA and bam, fixed.

    It will still be worse than a PPA in every single way at every single engagement distance but at least the gap will be closed somewhat. It doesn't have the alpha to take advantage of a huge magazine in the same way that a TRV could with a 200 round magazine and anyway, the PPA still gets 50+ so it's not without precedent.

    It doesn't need to be a versatile weapon because the AH was a versatile weapon and look what happened to it. It needs to be good at AI, and presently it's way worse than the Enforcer at AI. It's worse than just jumping out and shooting them with your gun
    • Up x 2
  5. Ronin Oni

    You mean none?

    All I'd do is increase ammo mag size to at least 20-30. (and capacity to match) Maybe even more

    Tighten maximum pellet spread so it's not useless at long range (obviously less ideal with damage drop-off and still having some spread)

    Stretch out damage drop over longer range.

    ADD EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE like the Air Hammer. (amount of explosive dmg may mitigate need to imrprove dmg over range as much since it's reliable at any range)

    Done, you effectively have a shotgun PPA

    As for the Marauder....

    Just increase it's Magsize. It's drop will require more skill at range, but the higher velocity will make it higher skill capped too since it'd more reliably hit your target in time (and with a much smaller round to see which can be dodged)
    • Up x 1
  6. Sagabyte

    When did it have 250x12? That's over 3,000 damage...
    Whatcha mean? A harasser splatted in the middle of an infantry cluster will instagib every single person really friggin fast, and then run away real fast.
    I don't think that making it have an abnormally massive mag size will make it much better, but I guess 18 (upgraded 20) could work. Also, the enforcer is always going to be decent at AI, but the Canister might be more efficient at that role.
  7. Epic High Five

    It aleady has a spread of 0.33, the lowest in the game BY FAR. Lowering it isn't going to help. Explosive damage would be nice but I'd rather have the gigantic magazines. If it's going to be a spammy weapon (which is fine, don't get me wrong) give it a spammy magazine size is all

    You will still land shots at 60m because the spread isn't awful. You just will NEVER land enough shots to do more than nuke someone's shields at that range without having to reload, at which point your chance is gone.
  8. Pikachu

    First and second version. I think it changed around august 2013.
    • Up x 1
  9. Sagabyte

    Its better to have the ranged damage than a spammy magazine. The thing with the canister is that it fulfills a slightly different role than the PPA. Rather than being a suppression cannon or long-range reaper, it's a tank defense, aggressive assault, and ESF deterring weapon. If you want a ranged spam weapon, the kobalt will find a home with you. For the purposes of this cannon, however, alpha damage and burst are a priority here.
  10. Epic High Five

    It had 1.33 for the longest time, then it was lowered during the pass that blew up the damage range as a way to make up for the damage loss, which is fine I guess but "functionally the same" isn't that great when the original ranking was #last in the game
  11. Ronin Oni

    ok, then just give it a huge magazine and splash damge.

    Not a ton of splash damage, Canister will rely more on direct dmg than Marauder/PPA will, but enough to allow it to suppress, prevent regen, and just boost dmg at range a bit.
  12. Epic High Five

    I want something that will kill infantry as well as the PPA.

    The Enforcer fills all of those roles very nicely as it is. I don't need the C85 to be the worst at AI and then have its AV/AA capabilities buffed to "still the worst" as compensation

    I can get behind this. I'm not really sold on splash damage helping because it'd only help on direct hits, and the problem is GETTING enough direct hits in the first place
  13. Sagabyte

    I thought it was something like 150x8. Maybe I'm thinking of PU-2.
  14. Gundem

    • Up x 3
  15. \m/SLAYER\m/

    it's different category, Canister is still not bad at close range, but Enforcer 2 hits kill.. yes, its such a pain to handle with it, but with some skill.. anyway, Vanguards is not about infantry farm...
  16. Sagabyte

    Again, roles. The ppa equivalent is the kobalt. If you want the PPA, grab the kobalt. If you want a strong people deterrent and need maximum WHACK per shot to do some drive-by genocide, grab the canister.

    Also, error on the pellet spread; it's the same .33 on the Harasser and .3 on the MBT.
  17. BadAsElite

    Sadly Higbys to busy on other projects to even care about what the NC thinks.
  18. Epic High Five

    The Kobalt is flat out better than the C85. Damages the same stuff, and puts that damage onto them with much greater efficiency

    The C85 is just a troll weapon, but that's what the Jackhammer used to be too so there is hope yet
  19. minhalexus

    Make the Marauder like Mossie's hellfire rocket pods.
    With some changes of-course.

    - No armour damage
    - High RoF (TR trait)
    - Higher velocity than PPA
    - Lower Splash
    - Really high magazine
    - Lower direct damage (but still two shots infantry)

    We ideally would want it to be better than the PPA in CQC, but worse in really long range.

    Give it a good look and good sound, and everyone will buy it.
  20. Pikachu

    It was done Game Update 09 May 22nd. It's the way it should be and we want it back. This s*** we have now should be a direct upgrade to it.