Yeah, the Lib is overpowered....

Don't. It's "okayish" against Libs, IF you manage to hit which is pretty hard. And in addition you are pretty much useless against ESFs (as hitting is pretty hard, even harder against fast moving ESFs) and absolutely useless against anything else.
There is a reason they are mostly absent in this game.

If more people would use MAX bursters you'd see less air during fights. We held of two massive air zergs with a dozen MAXs the other day at Crossroads. The Vanu tried a massive air zerg of dozens of planes. Fail. Then they tried a massive tank zerg. We all pulled heavy assault and crushed them with rockets. Fail. Then they tried air again. We pulled our MAXs again. Again they failed. I forgot how many planes we shot down, but I know I gained about 300 certs alone in that defense of the Crossroads. So keep flying the planes and keep pulling your tanks. Love the EXP and CERTS.

Infantry complaining about being unable to win against anti-infantry aircraft.

Makes sense.

You do realize, that there is a timer on the use of MAX armor so you can only pull them up 10m - However many certs put into reduction of the timer.

I dont lie, and I would appreciate it if you would withhold making such accusations without evidence.

Im sorry that you need more practice with the dual burster. I dont know what to tell you. An esf starts taking me on 1v1 I will win every time. Are you moving while he rocket spams you? his visual of you is minimal while the rockets are in the air so moving from side to side makes a HUGE difference. 14 burster max shells into the nose of a scythe will do substantial damage. if you cant out perform a hovering ESF pilot in a dual burster, then the problem is your gameplay, not the game sorry.

Numbers are an issue, i grant you that, but rarely are they so much of an issue what you cannot over come them. 3-4 burster maxes with 1 or 2 engineers will EASILY keep the sky clear of ESF's. if your friendly ESF;s remain in your area of combat, and flcus all of their attention of libs, you should be able to easily defeat a substantially larger force. if your maxes are being killed due to lack of eni support, or enemy ground forces then yea, they got you my the Achilles heel, and thats the way the game should be.

Sounds like miller is a crappy place to play. I agree that SOE needs to sdo something about population. I have NO idea how you would do it though.

A little story for SONY to contemplate.

Two Sunderers, two tanks, six engineers (drivers + tank gunners), four AA (Sunderer gunners, Nemesis weapons) and six or seven more soldiers (HA and Medics, all with fresh MAX respawn timers) moved out yesterday. Well organised and all in the same outfit. All on TeamSpeak.

Then a Lib shows up.

First Sunderer is down even before the AA have time to lock on the Lib, and the second Sunderer deploys asap so the rest of the team can fit MAX AA gear. A second later the guys that try to fit MAX AA gear dies in the splash damage. The still alive AA guys spread out and returns fire. All Nemesis missiles hit but not even a dent (-10% health?) in the Lib.
Seconds later, the second Sunderer starts taking a beating. The engineers are repping it but they all die from the huge splash damage the Libs gun have. Our dead guys are respawning now and tries to get into MAX suits. One or two succeeds and starts returning fire. the Lib ignores the flak and continues to kill our AA infantry for awhile until it flies off at 40-50% health with one Sunderer kill and sixteen infantry kills.

I agree that gunships, like the Lib, should do tremendous damage. I dont have a problem with that.
What i do have a problem with is that they can take such concentrated fire and just fly away, repair and then come back.

"Jump into fighters and shoot it down!"
But is this only an airgame? Arent we supposed to be able to fight on the ground as well?

This thread is comical. Some of the suggestions include giving damage / range drop off on a bomber, increase range of already infanite range AA, let a default, unupgraded single burster max beable to kill a 5000 cert lib 100% of the time, make it so ESF's can kill libs easier, remove the bomb's from the bombers....

Seriously guy's... are you smoking crack?

If a lib is over powered, hop in one and play it. Let me guess, it's just not your thing right? Well let me tell you why it's not your thing. Because it requires communication, team work, alot of certs and a dedicated crew. Using pick up gunners is a sure way to die and get 0 kills. Now, take 2 of ANY infantry class or ANY vehicle class (except flash's) and give them the same communication and team work, and they will clean up just the same. My friend, who has been my gunner, also gun's my vanguards, dual lightinings with me, mines bases and Gun's for me in a galaxy. We always tend to clean up. Now before everyone starts crying that they are in an outfit and they hear their glorious leader talking and telling them what to do alot, that is not communication nor is that team work. Team work is when you and the guy next to you spawns MAX'S instead of HE tanks when there are 20 enemy infantry units on the side of the mountain. Because those two guy's know that very soon there will be ESF's and Libs taking out there tanks, just the same as mineing capture points and staying and defending. 99% of the people playing this simply cannot understand that.

</rant>

This is such a LOADED post.

Your initial AA you stated was.... THE SUNDERER TURRETS AND NEMESIS LAUNCHERS? LMAO...

Those are like... the lightest of the lightest AA in the game. Those weapon systems, one on one, or even some what grouped, are not meant to be anything more then a deterrent to air, not a, oh look, we all got hit markers and it dies now, right?

Ive gunned in libs before, Im not sure what made-from-cardboard Sunderers your driving but they don't just vanish in seconds from a lib bombardment. And Define "maxes with aa gear" are you talking throwaways with just one equipped or true AA maxes with dual bursters?

I think this highlights the first problem very well. The lib can simultaneously be very effective against all ground targets. Sunderers can go down after the first volley, likewise MBTs are like paper baskets and hordes of infantry can be levelled in a single blast. Compare this to anti air units such as the burster max or skyguard. You can fight air and that is it. So:

Suggestion 1: Give the lib weapons that does the same damage vs infantry as it does now but does neglible damage vs armour OR armour piercing rounds that do zero splash damage.

Anyone ever been in a lightning and seen a lib appear in the distance? You're equipped with anti-tank rounds and dont fancy a fight with the lib so you turn and run at full speed. You never get away, never. The lib is faster than you and the projectile velocity is so high that hitting a full speed lightning is trivial.

Suggestion 2: Make the projectiles travel slower so it is more difficult to hit moving targets, force the lib to get closer to the ground to hit moving targets rather than rain death from above...

This way we're not nerfing its overall destructive power, we're just making it more specialised to a role (other than ****) and also adding more skill to gunning as you have to lead targets more, anticipate etc.

What the HELL.

No sunderer has ever gone down from one volley from a lib.

That is a blatant lie. Full health to zero from one volley?

If every shot was a rear shot its possible. Then again I'm not sure since I prefer infantry combat.

It's true, devs ****** up the game by making air meta-overpowered. 95%+ of the game map is easily dominated by air, why do people think Indar is so popular? It's the only continent Where infantry kinda have somewhere to hide, which is usually in the main battles where there is a guarantee of heavy flak.

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First off, Sunderers don't take extra damage from the rear. I tried placing C4 on all sides top and bottom of a sundy and every time had the same effect.
Second, the Liberator's main gun, the tank buster I believe, deals absolutely tremendous damage to vehicles. We're talking a sunderer at 50% HP in a single clip, reload in an instant, and finish it off, BAM, Sunderer dead in less than ten seconds.

I think a good idea would be to cap the speed libs can be going at 50 kph minimum and buff reload time on all the guns. Libs become more gunships less floating guns of death

And this confirms my theory:

Outfits right now should be rolling air only.
Let the zerg do the ground play and caps, get air superiority.


Anyway, we've been beating this dead horse for quite a while, and only one thing is certain:
You can't balance AA/Air using damage rates and numbers only

How about we interpret it this way:
Infantry stuff: 12,932 kills
Vehicle stuff: 33,352 kills

How I wish those two numbers were the other way around...
The current metagame is "farm infantry", and everyone knows it.

With everybody coming into the game pre-certed for air, as it were, this is utterly out of freaking hand.

I wasn't a member of the Nerf Air crowd originally, but Jesus! I'm to the point where I think they need to seriously reduce the effectiveness of every single explosive weapon carried by every vehicle versus infantry. Let the FPS people breathe a little. (That still doesn't solve the problem of instagib grenade spam, though.)

People crowing about LOL MY OUTFIT DOES THIS & THAT AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN AA SQUAD UR PLAYING WRONG LOL need to understand they're a dedicated minority. The great masses that will make this game pay for itself are casual gamers who are going to log on for an hour or two tops, maybe join a squad of people they recognize, maybe just lone-wolf around. And a pack of lone wolves all /yelling updates and advice to each other can do serious work in attack and defense. But if they get continually slaughtered from the air without even a chance to fight back they're going to stay away.

I got bored and decided to take another peek just now, and sure enough -- I died once to a friendly and once to enemy HA. The rest were strafing runs by Scythes and being farmed by the usual LIb hanging up above me like an armor-plated turkey vulture. The second fight I jumped into, me and one other guy grabbed burster MAXes and tried to fend him off. People were shooting at him with bazookas and smallarms. We all died. Both AMS's nuked from orbit. Moar phat XP for another soon-to-be level 100 Lib gunner. Another cooldown period to endure for my battered MAX.

Nothing I can pull. Nothing I can do. Stuck. Screwed. Strafed off the road, blown up while I was indoors, over and over. I was on for maybe six or seven minutes for the first time in a week. Identical results to last time, and the entire week before.

This game is about as fun as getting hit in the head with a hammer anymore.

(EDIT: Tonight I tried two locations -- the only places where there was any fighting going on. I counted thirty-forty friendlies at each. If there's the same number cooling their heels in the WG or running around doing their own thing, that means Indar -- everybody's favorite continent on a supposedly hi-pop Connery -- has fewer Terrans on it on a prime-time Saturday night than any given continent on any given night in PS1. Not good, folks.)

Keep Scourgeoftheserver in a lib. If he has a lib then he wont be harassing our libs when he switches to his scythe since thats all he does lib --> scythe --> lib --> scythe

I've only been killed by him twice but in general if you are getting lib farmed then redeploy somewhere else. Not that hard to do.

Liberators are ridiculously overpowered, and even their BR100 gunners know it... and I'm sure SoE knows it too. I just hope they do something to fix it sooner rather than later.