[Suggestion] Wrong changes for NC MAX Shotguns

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Demigan

    This is the latest PTS change:

    Dear Wrell, you could increase the ammo capacity to infinite, it wouldn't help the reduced sustainability. In fact, even if you really did solve the sustainability by giving NC MAX's a magazine capacity of 50+, you would still have problems because the NC MAX simply does not outperform the TR and VS MAX in any way. Only exception are the Scattercanons if they get a OHK within their ideal range, but all other shotguns are inferior to the TR and VS options.

    NC MAX's on PTS now have lower DPS, longer TTK's, less magazine depth, less accuracy, higher punishment for misses and longer reloads.

    NC MAX's on PTS have... One advantage over the TR and VS, with a singular weapon choice you can get a OHK in the ideal range if RNG favors you.

    If you want to balance this, the NC MAX's need some advantage. Sustainability is the TR's thing with as many bullets down range as possible. Accuracy is VS's thing. NC is supposed to be damage and bolted on prototype weaponry. This means the focus needs to be on DPS, shorter TTK's and advantageous mechanics. Buff DPS up again, not to the old levels but at the very least the NC MAX needs to be superior in it's ideal range. Then give it some nice stuff like something similar to the UT Flak canon only without bouncing shells and you can detonate the flak shell mid-air to produce a shotgun pattern from that point for example. It allows a MAX to fire at longer range, but also means you reduce the ROF as you have to detonate the previous shell before firing the next.
    • Up x 6
  2. TR5L4Y3R

    "dear wrel"

    ok lads confirm again that wrel himself is directly responsible for ballance ...
    because at least in one stream he himself mentioned he isn´t as he is more of a designer ...
    funny how you never name nicto or roxly when they post a patch or ballancechange ...
  3. Demigan

    Yes I normally point that out but in this case Wrel was the one who posted these changes. So I might as well adress him instead of "dear devs".
    • Up x 1
  4. DemonicTreerat

    Or Wrel could just admit he doesn't have a clue how to balance a specialized (extreme CQC range only) weapon on a MAX, while lacking the spine to tell the whiners to shove off, and do what others have been suggesting for who knows how long.

    Replace the Mattock, Scattercannon, & Grinder with autocannons that have high damage-per shot (it not current levels), high velocity, and lower rates of fire (semiautomatic for Mattock) with decent magazine sizes. Keep the Hacksaw as our specialized CQC weapon (just like the TR & VS get their Mutilator etc) without the option for slugs. Even less grounds for TR & VS whining since the NC MAX will need the exact same "skill" as their own and NC can take their MAXs outside a bit more without becoming completely useless.

    Hell, if he actually opts to start giving MAXs a few more options he could give all faction-specific MAX weapons the option for 3 types of ammo (high velocity, soft point, Sabot/ Explosive/ Unstable) since they don't get the option for optics.

    Won't happen though. Too many idiots here fixated on what is right in front of them (the MAX that offed them due to their stupidity in rushing around a corner knowing it was in the area) and a head developer whose head is so far up his own ego that he won't admit when he is simply flat out wrong.
    • Up x 1
  5. TR5L4Y3R

    and i would not be realy suprised cause

  6. Inogine

    Wrel thing's more a meme than anything, but he is the most vocal talking mouth. Also that the VS seem more favored lately with Wrel's inclusion to the team... Sooo.... Dear Wrel.
    • Up x 2
  7. Pacster3

    First of all that ONE advantage is the most important advantage possible...because the biggest threads to MAXes are C4 and rocket launchers and only that instagib of NC MAXES can reliably stop them. Mark my words: The NC MAX will still have the best stats on live servers...

    Second, I love it how you ignore the shield completely. It's by far the best ability of all three MAXes and a similar huge advantage.

    You should use blueshifts just once...then you'd know how "great" and "useful" that accuracy really is.
    • Up x 1
  8. TR5L4Y3R

    i heard bout VS "favortism" long before wrel got into dbg ..
    magrider opnesstalk was a thing befor wrel
    zoe maxopnesstalk was a thing before wrel and a couple of VS guns
    you go after him because many of you know him from his youtubechannel
    also just as a sidenote i am NOT here to defend him ...
    i just find incredibly pathetic to go after a person that so happens to be among the more public represantatives just because people are sooooo frustrated with the things they don´t like or disagree with ... it´s nothing but immature in my eyes ... frankly you should know better than that ..
    • Up x 1
  9. Inogine

    People have complained about everything at the start. The trend of lopsided buffs and effort in additions people didn't agree with in larger numbers started sharply after his inclusion, however. It is low hanging fruit though. More a meme than anything to be taken super seriously. It's just easier for a few to find a target for their anger than an entity that never responds in any real capacity. Wrel's about the only thing talking to the community in some capacity which is a bit unfair towards him, but that's just how mob mentality works. It's also a meme: IE funny to some folks.

    DBG as a whole, rather than Wrel, has shown some pretty hefty incompetence. They're also relatively silent when it comes to feedback on feedback. They just kinda do stuff and sometimes answer on their streams.
  10. Demigan

    That OHK is the least reliable due to RNG even if you aim perfectly. The "hold trigger and look" weapons from the VS and TR can kill more reliably and within the time of a C4 being detonated.

    The NC MAX will not have the the best stats on live servers. Here's someone (who is against NC MAX's normally if we can believe him) who did the calculations:

    As you can see, the NC MAX in his ideal range is still outperformed by the TR and VS with just about every weapon choice. Only the Scattergun can get that OHK, but only just if all the stars align and like a pump-action if you miss it's pretty much over and you are far behind any other weapon (assuming the "C4 about to be detonated" scenario).
    On top of all these worse TTK's, the NC MAX has a higher punishment for misses, less magazine depth, higher RNG and longer reloads. Please tell me what magic is going to make the NC MAX stay the best MAX if the TR and VS are as good if not better at the ideal range and farther out?

    The shield... Oh boy it's so good if you can use it during those long reloads while the TR and VS MAX's are still laying waste to all that infantry while you barely scraped 2 kills before having to reload... Oh boy oh boy such advantages... But allright, let's give the NC MAX some slack. It's got one weapon that can OHK when all the stars align and it's got a shield that tries to make up for having inferior weapons everywhere else. Everyone please blow your festive horn and throw your confetti for that massive revelation.

    Also I have tried out Blueshifts more than once, as the VS people themselves attest and even trip over themselves to tell you they'll be better than the Cosmos they are pretty damn good.
    • Up x 1
  11. OneShadowWarrior

    Dear Wrel,

    I applaud you for putting balance back into the game, NC maxes way overdue for a overhaul. The NC finally get to feel the pain the TR have seen and the Vanu.

    Like the NC don’t have fun toys? The Godsaw, Promise, Bishop, the best tank in the game, best assault weapons in their class Reaper and Carnage, Jackhamer has the biggest magazine size for a shotgun, I can keep going on with the raw brute strength and stopping power their weapons have.....
  12. Demigan

    You applaud them for "balance" by making the NC MAX the weakest in every aspect? Are you feeling OK?

    NC like the TR and VS all have their nice toys, but your list is off.

    GODSAW is still inferior to the butt-kicking Betelgeuse
    Bishop is inferior to both the TR and VS versions due to the other two faction's having actually useful abilities to mount on it. The Vanguard is arguably the worst tank in the game, even before the CAI nerfs it scored the worst on infantry kills, traded it's top spot for MBT kills with the Prowler often and to top it all off the Magrider got similar MBT kills per life as the Vanguard. So the Vanguard is quite literally underperforming as even it's supposed strengths are barely better than the other two. Jackhammer has biggest magazine for a shotgun but despite the popular myth that everything is about CQC shotguns are barely used and most engagements do not happen in those CQC ranges. I could keep going but the "brute strength and stopping power" is the worst aspect of NC weapons as it allows for the highest punishment for misses with barely if any advantage in TTK or (sustained) accuracy.
    • Up x 2
  13. Pacster3

    That's like exactly what you claimed for like the last 2 years about the NC MAX. It's like you completely ignore reality or stats...
  14. Demigan

    No I argued that the NC MAX was far more situational, and that it was excessively used in those situations while the TR and VS MAX see use in a larger variety of situations. This makes them have lower performance as they fight outside of their ideal ranges more often but in effect they are more useful overall.
    • Up x 1
  15. Pacster3

    WHatever you argue was wrong. Simply put. NC MAX was the most useful MAX. cause it was suited best for the most common MAX-situation...same counts for Vanguard when it comes top tanks. Heads on no other tank can beat the Vanguard...and in CQC not other MAX could outperform the NC one. That's it.
    All other stuff is just in your head and has nothing to do with the game reality.
  16. Demigan

    Funny, it is very possible to take on a Vanguard head-on. Also since the Vanguard is underperforming anyway your point is mute. You can argue "oh but in situation X it's OK" but that doesn't matter if overall the Vanguard remains inferior to the other two tanks. Put into your words, it's all in your head that it's supposedly superior, the statistics prove otherwise.
  17. WinterAero

    ''Whatever you argue was wrong.''

    Haha. What is this, the Bigotry lifetime achievement awards thread? Lol. Hilarious use of an absence of proof.

    You may be inclined to believe that people who don't play NC will universally agree. On contrary it would be nice if you didn't cause all of the NC to leave en mass and leave nobody left playing. But still. With the games current track, why bother right.
  18. Pacster3

    I ain't worried about having NC leave in masses, given that you guys got the largest pop anyway and you never worried about that when calling for nerfs of other factions(and especially Demigan was quite vocal there). People that just play when they got OP-toys can either leave the game or switch factions again...I don't mind.
  19. Demigan

    Since I'm quite vocal about REBALANCING rather than nerfing, and most of my idea's are about buffing one or both with additional mechanics rather than nerfing one weapon outright, I'm going to call you a troll here just looking for a response where you can take the moral high ground and keep lying.
  20. pnkdth

    The damage versus other MAX units doesn't make sense since it would lack both the damage AND magazine capacity. It is like the NC MAX gets the worst of both worlds as far MAX vs MAX combat goes. The one NC MAX weapon (the Grinder) which can take on other MAX units fires so very slowly you're likely to be wiped out before you get a kill.

    The fact this happens at the NC MAX ideal range boggles the mind.

    At this range, the NC MAX should have an edge versus other MAX units simply because TR/VS can start firing much sooner (regardless of shield or not). You should be rewarded for getting close in a slow lumbering MAX which no longer has the MAX charge ability.

    Faction politics and BS aside, just because you think NC MAX units are too strong now does not mean they should be nerfed into the ground. Most factions can empathize with having gear be rendered useless or near useless. It does not help the game to gloat or push for changes like this.
    • Up x 3

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