Would you remove shotguns from NC max?

Yeah! Those too!!

In practice, statistics, on paper, in all metrics I'm right. If you run around the corner and come face to face with a scatmax you're dead before you can even react. If you do the same to a TR or VS max, guess what, STILL dead before you can react because their TTK are virtually the same. The difference in the TTK between a scatmax and a TR/VS max is so miniscule it makes absolutely no difference. We're talking about a difference of like .3 seconds.

Literally the only place a scatmax is better is in max vs max fights under 10 meters range. In literally every other situation the TR/VS are either equal or outright superior.

THAT LMG PART MADE ME SO MAD. That should be for VS, I've been yelling it out on both the game AND the forums for the past three months. I also mentioned that the NC will get a slow firing Gauss rifle, and the TR would receive a mini-gun with a bipod and had superior fire rate with horrible recoil.

You know the Hacksaw? You know how it fires? The railgun is going to be 40 rounds slower than it. Which. Isn't. Too. Shabby. If I may say so myself But here's something I WOULD like to see:
A portable SAW that the MAX uses, it's slightly larger than the SAW, with 250 damage, 387 rounds per minutes, and it has very little drop off. It would add to the utilitarian feel of the NC. I'd be horrified if a NC MAX with a BOSSGODSAW were running at me

really?.........ive been playing for a long time, and its always been a given (except back when ZOE was amazing) that the NC MAX is better.........i have played all of the factions.....and the NC MAX has always felt like its better in CQC........what weapons are you comparing for TTK?.......are you doing the 250 cert AI weapons?


and in the world where fractions of a second matter.... .3 seconds is actually kinda big



im just saying.......pretty sure the NC MAX is still better at CQC

First of all, when are you going to be back on TV, Admiral? And is porthos or a clone still around?

That said, NC MAX is what I would call wasteful TTK. Sure, it can kill an infantry faster than any other MAX (PROVIDED the target is in range), but then it has to reload. Other maxes can kill slightly slower, but more before they have to reload, and I think most NC MAX players would love to trade in that shotgun max for a gauss cannon with a 50 round mag.

You can test for yourself, go grab a TR or VS max, standing right in front of someone and shoot them. They're dead in less than a second. When the TTK is less than a second for all three maxes, you can't really say the NC max is better at close range.

I've been playing around with Grinder/slugs lately. My kills/min by weapon:

• 2.96 Grinder/slugs (NC)
• 2.09 Onslaught (TR)
• 2.05 Nebula (VS)
• 1.87 Blueshift (VS)
• 1.87 Mercy (TR)
• 1.69 Mattock (NC) from my older NC char with more kills

You are thinking of Hegeteus who has a weird fetish about shotgun.

I just did both Modified Enforcer so ******* can stop telling me to L2P with those gun. In reality, I have a burning hatred of shotgun in any games since they are never balance.

You are really way off with the TTK. TTK represents the time from the first shot hit on target til the last shot hit. NC MAXes have a TTK of 0 in that they are often 1 click kill weapons. Not technically OHKO but essentially the same. A dual grinder shot is potentially 1560 damage (assuming no pellets hit the head) which is plenty to kill anything short of a nano 5 heavy with a full nanomesh/adrenaline shield.

Dual cyclers fire 800 RPM @ 143 damage. You need seven bullets to kill and fire a little over 13 per second. That means the TTK against a non nanoweave target is 0.52 seconds. The difference is huge, it is the difference between reacting, dodging and dropping their accuracy to further extend the TTK and just simply being dead before you can do anything.

Players can feel the subtly between the TTK difference of 652@143 and 800@143 weapons when it comes to TTK, which is small. The gap between NC MAXes and TR and VS MAEXes is much larger by comparison.

*edit* even if you assume it takes 2 bursts to kill, you are still looking at a 0.3 TTK which is faster, but if we are going to be fair, that represents 3120 potential damage to kill a 1000 HP target, if we apply that "accuracy" to the TR max, then you are looking at a TTK for the cyclers of 1.63 seconds.

Bro, if you honestly think half a second makes any shred of difference you're being delusional. In both situations you're dead before you can even react. I can say with a fair bit of certainty that there's nothing a player's gonna do that's gonna change the tide of battle in literally half a second.

Like I specifically said players can tell the TTK difference 652@143 weapons and 800@643 weapons. The gap you are trying to say is non existent is larger than that. Try again

Prove it that a player can react in half a second and alter the outcome of battle. Because I've literally never seen it, never seen proof of it, never heard of any actual instances of it happening. Half a second isn't a lot of time and while they might notice it, that doesn't mean they'll be able to react to it.

I think it is only possible if the MAX is already at half health and you already have your rocket launcher out when you turn around the corner, so that you can MAYBE get that 1 shot to kill the MAX. I think thats about what 0.5 second is enough for; shooting 1 rocket from the hip. 0.5s is not enough to drop and detonate 1 C4 or tank mine, even 1 second isnt enough for those and is definitely not enough for 2 rockets. I agree, when running into an AI MAX the TTK difference between the factions' AI weapons does not really matter (only in the special case I mentioned above: RL already out, MAX at half health).

This is super easy. While playing heavy, 9 times out of 10 where I've been surprised (while at full health) by a TR or VS MAX I can swap to my rocket launcher and get a shot off. I might miss, I might splash, or I might get direct hit, that depends on my aim / the situation.

Against an NC MAX in the same situation, I'm dead 9 out of 10 times before I can even weapon swap.

That is the real practical difference in TTK.

Reaction time isn't something where "all players are created equal" which is why some players are better at "twitch" type shooters than others. If you can't sense the difference between the weapons I mentioned before, then it might be like trying to have a discussion about a painting and the artists color choices with a color blind person. No offense intended, just the way it is.

You realize that it's factually impossible to swap to your rocket launcher and fire it in .5 seconds, right? Like, the game literally wont let you do it that quick due to the delays between actions. So you're straight up lying with that one. The only possible way you could do that is if you did it before they started shooting, but then if you act before they shoot you can do the same against an NC max.

As Alchemist said about the only thing you could possibly do that'd make a difference is if you already had your rocket out and the max was already half health. In a real, practical scenario you're gonna be insta-gibbed with no real resource no matter which faction's max you're up against.

And again, I'll be requesting proof that you can actually react in .5 seconds. Go take a video or something and show me that it's entirely possible to swap to your rocket and put one into the max in .5 seconds, because I seriously doubt that claim.

in game time, half a second can be the difference between life and death....first, you need to think about how fast your average rifle reloads in PS2.

ill use the T1 cycler and the Cycler TRV as examples

the T1 has a short reload of 2.755 seconds, while the TRV has a short reload of 3.12 seconds......thats a difference of .37 seconds

imagine if it was a 0.52 second difference?

alot of reloads in this game vary by .5 or .8 seconds, it really is substantial.


as for reaction, the average player has a 60-130 ms latencey, which is the accurate representation for how long it takes for information to be sent, be processed and be received by your computer and the server. humans have a built in 80 nanosecond delay, so its like..... 0.00068 second delay time....a .5 second difference is huge, and there if you are fast, and you have a GREAT connection and preformance, it is possible to change the outcome of a battle....say you have a rocket out and you are trying to kill a TR MAX unit.....if you pop around the corner and fire, the rocket WILL fire before the MAX can kill you.....but if you go against an NC MAX unit, because their weapons are often OCK, the rocket wont fire.


.52 seconds is quite a bit of time

well.....ironically i actually play waterpolo, Enterprise was my favorite Star Trek series, and i hate dogs



as for the MAX unit, they have a good advantage in CQC, and im sure alot of players would rather the NC have gauss saws, mainly because the NC MAX would become weak in CQC and it wouldnt be what it is now....it would be kinda boring, and it would out gun the already pathetic TR MAX.

if the NC get new guns, they need to be unique...im still waiting for the day that i can strap 2 MCGs to my TR MAX, or 2 lashers or 2 jackhammers

I'm still gonna request proof, because I've never once seen a player ever manage to somehow turn the battle around in less than half a second. Go out and do what you're saying and take a video of it, from the moment you start getting shot do something to save yourself before you die. Because yeah, things like popping out of cover for a quick rocket that only works because you shoot the rocket before the MAX, TR or NC or VS, even begin shooting. Shoot that rocket AFTER they start shooting and let's see how well you fare then. Because even against a scatmax, if you shoot first then you do just fine. As was said, TTK starts from the moment the bullet hits you. And I don't think a difference in TTK of half a second is enough to let anyone do anything.

i dont have the equipment to record a video while im playing PS2.....my computer just cant do it


and TTK is not when the bullet hits you, its slightly more arbitrary......because if TTK was when the bullet hits you, a scat max would have a TTK of pretty much 0 since it fires both guns at once