Would you be happy or upset if they removed AV Mana Turrets from game and refunded certs/sc?

They need to go. Engineers were fine before this cheese was introduced into the game. Its a terrible design.

Different opinions I guess as I would have made Engi a branching cert tree ..

Make them the only class that can pull anything other than a flash or sundy .. Then branch their cert tree to either Vehicle use or repair ..
Hinders the individual more but promotes more teamplay and would create a synergy between those that play infantry and those that primarily use vehicles

So much Emotion

Very Excited

Happiness for change

Much tail wagging

Wow

You type very well for a very literal dog.

It's all about the keyboard.

if you are being killed by a guy 800m away then you are not moving enough and if that guy can hit you from that distance he deserves the kill. its a tough shot to make especially if the target is moving and it takes 4 shots minimum. this weapon has a very low firing rate, if you are being killed by a lone one of these then you are doing a poor job of tanking. If this is in a heated firefight then this is only one of the many AV you are being hit by then you would probably die anyways from one of the many other AV things getting shot at you.

It fits the game, but like many other stuff in the game, idea is OK/Good but the execution is beyond terrible in my opinion. Missile has nearly 100m/s speed, a lifetime of 10s, pinpoint accuracy, and high damage. It is just too much.

Just today, saw a squad of them at 750m distance, focusing targets one by one. And you cannot spot them at that range by the way, I think they start rendering at 500-600m. Granted, you don't come across that much of a teamplay between randoms, so they were either friends or from the same outfit, but still. Nothing was able to deploy, and if something came to a full stop, there were enough missiles hitting the target(s), blowing them up in merely seconds.

Some ideas (not all together, all are separate unless opposite is said) that might remedy the issues:
-Engineer turrets cost resources (150 infantry). An engineer can carry a maximum of 1 (maybe 2 with utility belt) with them, and they need to be replenished via terminals like C4s and other throwable explosives
-Lifetime reduction to 6 seconds
-Missiles decelerate at a steady rate to a minimum of 50m/s. As the missile decelerates, it loses some of its agility (turning) aswell
-After a certain distance travelled (lifetime in other words), missiles lose guidance
-Missiles can be shot in air
-Damage reduced to 65%
-Increased draw distance, also bigger hitbox & models for the AV Mana turret

Remember, these ideas above are exclusive. Some can be combined. But gods no, everything above at the same time will make it as useless as Aegis

My sniper would be sad.

You heard it here folks. Teamwork is OP.

Anyway, you people have used the Engineer turret, right? Actually hitting anything at long ranges is quite difficult since it has absolutely no zoom. If you're not pixel perfect, you miss entirely. If you're -not- at long range, then you're an easy target for any tank driver with a working pair of eyes and snipers will gleefully pop a bullet in your skull as soon as they notice you.

Secondly, unless there's a squad of people working together, AV turrets aren't particularly effective at anything other than harassing the enemy and picking off already damage targets. If you're able to hit a tank multiple times by yourself, then that tank driver was just awful. If he hasn't moved behind cover by the third shot then he deserves to die, simple as that. A vehicle, no matter how armored, shouldn't be able to sit in one spot with utter impunity and shell to his heart's content. A tank is not a license to sit out in the open and farm.

All I ever see are vehicle drivers complaining about things that kill them. C4 is OP. Lock-ons are OP. AV turrets are OP. No. No they aren't. They're weapons that allow infantry to effectively counter otherwise extremely difficult to kill tanks which, of course, means that tankers utterly loathe them. If tanks aren't able to camp a base and destroy waves of foot soldiers, then obviously the weapons being used need to be nerfed until it -is- possible.

Come on guys. Tanks are by far the easiest way to get kills in this game.

Speaking as a fulltime Maytag Repairman... I mean Engineer, I would clearly be upset.

What the AV Mana turret really has done for me is save me my C4's.

I used to blow up the Phalanx Turrets that Infiltrators had switched over to their color with my C4's. Now I just use five shots from the AV Mana Turret to get the job done. Since I don't use C4's for that task now, I don't have to constantly run back and forth to terminals to restock my C4 all the time. So I can repair a station in full in less time and get back to the front lines.

I bought mine with certs and I'd be fine if they just disabled it until they "fixed" it, whatever that might entail - and would be happy to wait however long it took till they managed that. It's often not a problem, but when it is, it's a really big problem. Lines of invisible turrets are very very bad indeed, especially when they're in an area that cant reasonably be countered by infantry (ie where every intelligent group will place them).

It's a really hard thing to balance, because honestly the turret's not that great (though it is loads of fun) aside from it being completely invulnerable if you choose to abuse it.

I'd argue that it doesn't fit the game because even in its base design ideals it allows infantry to cause as good or better damage to vehicles than vehicles can cause to each other (last I checked it took 4 Mana shots to down a sundy vs. 5 Vanguard AP). "Combined arms" doesn't mean infantry can do everything they want, but it's smart business to cater to your largest market, so combined arms gets thrown out the window to make infantry the most powerful thing on Auraxis. Lockons, AV mana, C4 vs. vehicles/MAX, to some extent the current AA flak mechanics... all of this needs to be removed or toned down by extreme amounts in order to foster the combined arms angle of the game. Now combined arms doesn't mean invincible vehicles kill everything either, but infantry killing everything better than vehicles killing everything is broken and unfun.

To show what I mean, using currently in game mechanics and no one touching an AV MANA turret or lockon rocket: I was part of a full platoon armor farmfest that just pulled against the VS on Indar. We were all in AP Vanguards, Lightnings, armored sundies, and even the odd Harasser (cause after the nerf you see one and you say "hmm, that's odd") it was the kind of armor zerg you expect to go all the way to the warpgate laughing the whole way. It was good times. Well what happened? Not long after we took the point at one of the bases, all or most of the VS went away. Then before the base fully capped a huge brigade of VS riding in heavy armor came over the ridge and crashed our armor party. It was intense, tanks were running and hiding, there were explosions everywhere, squad leaders were yelling and giving orders, people dying left and right friend and foe, it was like... war.

We ended up losing all our armor and the push, but the point is that's one of those moments that makes you realize why you started playing the game. The "game" is still there, hidden in its base mechanics, but it's often mistaken for the top layers of cheese that covers the surface. If our armor column had been wiped out by a squad of invincible AV MANA turrets or lockon rockets utilized by a free soft revivable respawnable unit, our reaction might be "jeez, this game is pretty dumb" and we might stop playing because it's like the game humiliating our preferred playstyle. But, having been wiped out by a force of enemies similar in composition and ability to our own, our reaction might be closer to "man that fight was intense, maybe next time we'll try different tactics, attack from a different angle... etc" That's the whole combined arms angle, force multipliers, positioning, tactics, luck, all that. These cheesy infantry abilities make the gameplay a whole lot more shallow.

As long as they would be refunded, sure. I'd be all for that.

Id be ecstatic. I hate those OP super guided god mode cruise missiles of doom!

They are long range super snipers for AI, AT or AA.....

MANA AV=OP...

Yes. Yes. Get rid of the damn thing. It's literally the most lazy weapon design in the game. The weapon model itself is a bulldog with the original mana turret's handles and tripod welded on. It looks like it took as long to make the in game model as it did to design the "balanced" stats. Which is to say, all of 5 seconds.

I'd be a bit sad that there are less people standing still on turrets for me to snipe, but other than that I don't much care if it's in the game or not. I don't go in vehicles and very rarely play engie lol

I love my AV mana, but I rarely ever use it for long range sniping which is what people mostly complain about. It's pretty balanced in proper ranges. I think the AV mana is fine in it's current form, but needs a balance overhaul. Don't change any mechanics. Shorten it's range by 30% or so and force it to render to enemy tanks so both can see eachother at the same ranges. This way they can balance it in a big way with minor changes without the current owners up in pitchforks with a bait and switch item. Easy fix for everyone.

yep that's it in a nutshell, pretty cut and dried solution and we're ALL happy (can it really be?)

If the user rendered properly, it wouldn't need to be removed/changed at all. The fault belongs with game mechanics, not the weapon itself.

I really couldn't care less about the AV turret.

The AI MANA turret, now...

I WOULD PAY SC TO HAVE THOSE THINGS DISAPPEAR OVER NIGHT.

They're beyond annoying now, considering the fact that you need to hit dead center on the gun itself in order to destroy it (even with a ******* Decimator).