With the new resource system, maybe it is time to review MAX cost and revive

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by GhostAvatar, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. GhostAvatar

    As the title says. I think that increasing the resource cost was probably the wrong way to go. Instead I would prefered it to be reduced back to where it was (maybe even less), but no longer allow revives.

    Doing so now adds a cost for losing your MAX. People will use it as a proper force multiplier and actually value it. Instead of the current, lets just spam it. But with there no longer being a timer involved (and reducing the cost back down), people can pull again if they make a mistake or just have some bad luck off the starting block.

    • Up x 3
  2. CNR4806

    Actually, purely from the standpoint of MAX-pulling balance, while the current system is not perfect, it's not that bad either.

    You CAN'T chainpull MAXes with the current cost; assuming you start with 750 resource (which if spent, recovers at 50 resource per minute without boosts), pulling one MAX (750-450=300) leaves you unable to pull another for 2~3 minutes (300+50x3=450), and if you die THAT quickly with both MAXes (dropping resource to 0) you'll effectively have a 8~9 minutes cooldown (50x9=450). Even if you don't die that quickly, it will still make a severe dent on your resource pool (larger than a MBT and yet not nearly as tough as one). You'll have to make sure it survives, and if that is not possible, make sure it dies somewhere within a medic's reach.

    On a whole, MAXes are NOT spammable on an individual basis, and personal resource is largely irrelevant if you're trying to talk about MAX-crash level coordiated MAX-pulling (the latter is the same for pulling a tank zerg or an ESF zerg). The only thing that suffers from the current system is that pulling a MAX severely hampers your ability to pull something else since it drains 60% of your maximum resources, and it's not exactly a very effective constraint to members (who have +50% resource gain).


    And the above is actually a bit irrelevant, as I'd like to see how this suggestion might turn out myself.

    While not necessarily fixing MAX-spamming (since MAX cost is reduced), no-revive forces MAXes to play even more defenseively than they currently do, and killing off a MAX will actually make a visible dent on the enemy's battle formation (as the MAX user will have to go back and pull a new one from the nearest terminal like a vehicle, instead of rising up from where he died, retreat a little and get repaired in 5 seconds).
  3. KenDelta

    Cost would be 200 if you can't revive them.(They would still be spamable , once every 4 mintues.)

    Their cost is too high at the moment to be non-reviveable.

    To be honest I can't see this change coming , Mercy/Blueshift(High accuracy AI weaponry) Maxes would be too good because they will promote safeplay(even MORE saferplay if you play safe on maxes) , while NC maxes would get the bad part of the change.
    • Up x 1
  4. DatVanuMan

    I support this suggestion. God blesses you. Death to the MAX!
  5. gigastar

    Can we wait for Higgles to finish work on the new resource system before we start putting up crazy ideas?

    And frankly, reducing the cost would just allow for chainpulling, and CQC infantry conflicts would still mostly be determined by the MAXs in terms of "Who ran out first?" and "Who can bring more in quicker?"

    All it really does is give medics less to do.
  6. GhostAvatar

    Thats the thing. In your example you actually give weight to a MAX dying, like it actually means something. Which in its current form isn't actually the case. As for resource cost, thats irrelevant as long as you have medics on hand. At the moment there is no punishment for making mistakes and losing your MAX. Removing revive would actually punish a player for their mistakes. But also reducing the cost would make that punishment not too severe in terms of resource cost. I got a feeling this would make the MAXs as a force multiplier scale a lot better in fights.

    At the speed they are going, I would say no. Plus there is nothing stopping them reviewing it again, once they implement further changes to the resource system. And while yes, reducing the cost would allow for chain pulling. As opposed to chain reviving there is a finite limit it can be done over a set time period.

    Thats why I am suggesting to review them being revived AND there cost at the same time, derp. Honestly though, 200 would be way too cheap.

    And no, this wouldn't promote safe play. The current system already does that. At the moment if you play safe and keep behind/close to friendly forces, it is easy to get rezzed and take cover to repair. If you are aggressive and die, there is little chance of getting that rez. This system would mean that getting killed either in defense or offensive would be a similar result. Plus it rewards those who would push forward through enemies to take that MAX out. So no, I doubt NC would get the short straw. What it would do is make the MAX a resource to be protected by team mates and used tactically when needed.

    Personally, I would be very interested to see revives removed and the cost reduced to 300 for a month. Just to see how it plays out.
  7. andy_m

    This would pretty much suit me because I rarely get revived as it is.

    But I think that the usual anti-MAX crowd will want the cost to be increased further AND to not allow revives.
  8. GhostAvatar

    I am actually part of that crowd. But I aint stupid enough to not realise that MAXs are part of the game whether I like it or not. Besides there are times that a MAX is essential part of the game play.

    However, they do need to be balanced around that and scale better depending on the fight. They need to become a tactical choice and not some crutch utilised at all times.
  9. andy_m

    Your signature sure has me confused then...
  10. gigastar

    Even if you put it that way, the only real impact i can see this having is supports having less to do, and MAX players getting drops in thier K/DR stats.
  11. GhostAvatar

    For support players it should have no effect. People still need reviving. Yes they won't be able to revive the MAX. But that person will have to come back as a non-MAX afterwards, right? And if it does have the result that you state in reducing MAX players KDR. That means that player is dying more often, which means more revives for the medic.

    As for the engineer, they already have more than one role. But repairing MAXs will just become more vital, since if it goes down it is for good. So they will have to do more in terms of support. As opposed to letting the MAX die and letting the Medic take care of it instead.

    As for KDR, thats another discussion on whether KDR has any actually meaning in terms of tactical game play. Best saved for another thread I think.

    Just because I like the image of something, doesn't mean I play that exclusively. In fact, out of all the classes, it is my least played after LA (accounting for only 5% of my play time).
  12. Frotang

    My idea for MAX has always been to implement something similar to how PS1 treated MAX units. I strongly disagree with taking away the revivability of MAX units but I can agree to a point that reviving them currently is a bit too simple. You see in PS1, a MAX had it's shield health (kind of like the shields infantry have in PS2) which was the major base of it's health, like 90% probably. Then it had an actual health pool but that accounted for a very small percentage of the MAXes overall strength, like 10%, so basically a MAX without shields was an instant kill.

    What I'd like to see is to change the PS2 MAX to act the same way, instead of the two green bars it has now that make it look like it has 2 full bars of HP why not change that and make the top bar blue just like infantry. This blue bar would be the MAXes armor health, or in other words, the health of the actual mech suit, and it would not regenerate. This blue bar would be the only thing that engineers can repair. Now the bottom bar can be left green to symbolize the MAX unit user's health. You could scale these obviously so that the top blue bar would soak up like 90% of the total damage and the bottom green HP bar would account for the last 10% before the MAX dies.

    Now the change for reviving I would like to see is that a MAX user cannot be revived until a certain % of their armor or mech suit is repaired, lets say 25% for starters. So once a MAX dies an engineer would need to repair the broken suit on the ground up to 25% before a medic could run up and begin to revive. Now this adds some strategy bc an engineer may want to repair the MAX suit to 100% before they tell the medic to come in and revive effectively bringing the MAX suit up 100% healed. There could obviously be some tweaks here to balance, and you could restrict the amount that a dead MAX suit is allowed to be repaired before it can be revived if that's a balance issue.

    I feel this change would make it more difficult to revive MAX units within the allotted time period before they despawn as it now requires two teammates to work together just to bring the MAX back to life. But even bigger than that for me this change would just make sense visually. It's always bothered me that currently MAX units have 2 green bars that are used in the game to symbolize health. For some reason though these green bars can be repaired by engineers but cannot be healed by medics, oh except for that once special time when a medic revives a MAX and magically repairs with their heal gun...it's kinda laughable. Making the visual change to a separate bar for Armor and Health IMO is the right way to go on this and I think would better help people to accept that a MAX can be revived and make it actually believable.