This... People who ***** about C4 really have no idea what they are talking about and have never actually used LA or C4 Just because there is something out there that can hard counter you in a specific situation doesn't mean its overpowered. There a ways to not get killed by C4 (that don't even need flak armor to do it), it's called working together and being aware of your surroundings. When I roll LA, it's almost impossible for me to be effective against large groups unless I have been hiding and laying a trap (in which case, I should rightfully have the upperhand). LA's that specilize in C4 runs are very high risk, high reward playstyles. Most of the time when I try to get close to a group or a max unit I get killed, and most of the time when I get killed I've already placed a brick or two. Of course I excell at taking groups out from behinds that are unsupported by teammates but that's the point.
<- above average LA player: C4 accuracy stat = 16% Outfit mate who is also a LA mainly, but is better than me: C4 accuracy stat = 20% Rakshasa's: C4 accuracy stat = 19% I don't think mister MAX has anything to worry about. At least until C4 can be ressed.
According to those numbers, I'm fantastic with an accuracy of 24% with C4.... And I hate them.... Huh...
I think that Max's by default, should be able to survive 1 brick of C4 with 20% of their health left, meaning you must finish them with whatever your primary is or another brick of C4. Flak armor 5 would leave you with something like 40%-60% health if you are C4'd with 1 C4 brick.
absolutely not. Any MAX can be revived and repaired to 100% health. They may cost a whole lot of Inf resources, but what you can get out of it is HUGE! You have to do it correctly, but then it is really rewarding. Why should killing a unit that can be revived with ease be as expensive as destroying a 250 resources tank, which can't be repaired? It is a risk for anyone getting close to a MAX for anyone trying it. Additionally it costs 100 (or 200) inf resources to destroy a MAX unit (which can be revived with ease as said) and leads in almost all cases to the death of the assaulting player. For some certs you can make your MAX unit resistent enough against C4 so that 2 bricks are needed to kill it. Just cert into it. Noone stops you. Noone will stop other players from doing it. If a player decides to pay 200 certs and 100 inf resources and a life (or more) to get rid of a MAX unit the he should be able to kill a player who only paid 350 inf resources fo his MAX. The moment you start certing into your MAX should be the moment you think of what you need. When you decide that C4 is a problem get Flak-Armor. If you decide that C4 is not a problem of yours, don't complain when proven otherwise.
Actually, the MBT would be 450 vehicles resources. Still, I find it quite ridiculous that 1 100 resource C4 can take out a 350 resource Max from full health. Most of the time a LA will jump down toward you, place the C4, jump jet away and set it off before you can get out of the radius. There are only 4 solutions to this problem which are 1.) Increase the price of C4. 2.) Revert the resource changes from GU11 3.) Nerf C4 4.) Buff MBT's and Max's so that they still have some health left after being C4'd (In the Max's case this is for 1 C4, but not so much that flak armor gives you the ability to survive 2 C4's. In the MBT's case this is for 2 C4's.) I would rather the resource changes from GU11 be reverted than any other solution but those are the only 4.
See I have problems with your point of view. This should never be about balancing the resources on a killing basis. This whole argument should be about the effectiveness of each. Earlier today I killed 22 people with my Max suit before I lost it, and that was only due to the game freezing. Zero deaths, though there were certainly medics and engineers running around to keep their maxes going. Getting 10 kills in a Max suit isn't very hard in all honesty. I am a very heavy C4 user. I've gotten in a few situations where I manage to kill multiple people with a single brick. The highest amount I can think of was killing 12 people with 2 bricks or 7 with one brick of C4. I'd say that most of those times I also died after killing one or two more people with my SMG. That makes a grand total of 8 or 9 people per brick of C4, AT THE MOST. That is far less than what I experience with my Max suit. You can resurrect and repair a max. Can you resurrect and repair a block of C4? You can switch between AV, AI, and even AA as a Max. Can C4 equal the AA power of a Max? You can cert into Flak armor as a Max to negate C4. Can an infantryman cert into armor to negate a Max's killing power? Do you not see that the effectiveness of Maxes and MBTs far outweigh that of C4? Why can't people see that the resource costs for Maxes and MBTs SHOULD be higher than C4? Adapt your play style instead of forcing others to adapt. MBT's need to start running and using radar more if they feel C4 is a huge threat to them. Maxes need to start using Flak armor more if they feel C4 is a huge threat to them. Making C4 change is the absolute worst idea when you already have the tools to change how it effects you itself.
If they were to ever raise C4 resource cost, I would also expect to see an additional resource cost for MAXes when they accept a rez.
I understand what you mean, because I also use C4 quite a bit. My problem with it is that it is not the cost of the C4, but it is the cost of the things that C4 is used against. 2 C4 costs 200 resources with no timer, 1 MBT costs 450 resources and a timer that can be anywhere between 15 minutes-5 minutes. 1 Max costs 350 resources and a timer that is usually about 8-4 minutes but can be revived, but not every medic is kind enough to revive you because they say "Well I can't repair him, so imma repair this dead heavy over here." Most of the time, when I kill people with C4, they have no idea that I am dropping that C4. Most of the time it is situational awareness that gets people killed by C4. In my MBT, as far as I know I have only been killed by C4 users in my Vanguard TWICE. I used bold on twice because it shows that if you are aware of what is happening and don't go in a place where you are easy to drop some bricks on, you will not be killed by it. Also, saying that you cannot resurrect and repair a brick of C4 is irrelevant because they cost so little, they only cost 100 infantry resources which can easily be made back because most places where infantry resources are used, they are also made (because you get resources for XP when you are in certain areas, in the case of bio labs that give infantry resources, you make infantry resources from XP), which is primarily in Bio Labs, Towers, and small outposts. I think that SOE should at least find some middle ground between the current resource costs of Max's and vehicles, and what they used to be because right now the cost of these vehicles compared to the main threats of these vehicles is kind of imbalanced. it was balanced before GU11 but not quite anymore.
it is still balanced, everyone keeps looking at it in a way that makes little sense. if you want to go with the initial idea of having comparing cost of one tool against another tool. why aren't more people moaning about rocketlaunchers and AV turrets? they are free, no infantry resource and they can take a max just as easily, 2 guys using the S1 equvilient storming a max team and that team is done. going for MBTs well... they only require 4-6 rockets depending on where you hit it. that's a ZERO, 0, less than 1, resource cost, yet i see very few people advocating for the cost of those items to go up. but lets change it around for a second. if someone pays 450 Mech-Res, for a tank and then insist that because of balance C4 should be more expensive, then i'm going to suggest that the cost of each shell the tank fires should cost roughly 10 Mech-Res. with an ammo sunderer near by to resupply or an ammo tower not far away, a tank has access to infinite amount of ammo. in such a tool, there's a chance to kill more than 100 people and other vehicles, if you consider C4 to be a cheap solution to a problem like a MBT, then i ask that you please try it, become a tank hunter like me, i've chased down tons of tanks on my feet, i've made them run off and leave the hex. you'll see that it's not easy, you have so many things to cross in order to get to that tank thats the cause of your headache and he might just swirl around and shoot you and you have to go again, you might even have dropped some C4 on the tank or the ground leaving you with fewer resources. as you can see, on average, i've used 6,82 blocks of C4 for each kill i have with C4. raising my cost for each kill to 682 infantry resource. because i've gotten to tanks and sunderers and others and placed my C4 and then taken out before i could detonate and claim my reward. so please, do not claim that it does not cost anything to chase tanks, i do it on a daily basis and i have the numbers to prove it. fighting maxes is even worse because you have to corpsecamp them for 61 seconds after you kill them. you have to take their monkies and medics out before you can take them, because maxes are weak when they are alone. sure they can kill, but they can't cap a point and they can't get ammo or repair themselves as easily. one of my greatest joys is taking maxes, and it turns out, i'm getting better at it as well. i have some 543 max kills (335 TR + 208 NC) again, if anyone wants the cost of C4 to go up, then i want the cost of the materials you use to go up as well. lower the cost of the tank to 250 but put a cost of 10-20 Mech-Res per shell. same goes for maxes, lower the cost of the max, but remove the ressourection option. or understand that with the potential killing power in the hands of the Max and MBT driver, you deserve the kicking you get when you option to spend resources to get a boost to your killing power and you then get taken out.
and here again I want to introduce the idea of a medic-only consumable costing 50 inf resources: Revive MAX-Suits. You can carry 1-5 of these depending on how many instances you certed. A MAX-Suit can be revived iwth 20% health. End of story. If noone wants to revive MAXes, then noone will do it and the MAX is lost. If the MAX is resurrected then it costs not only to get it, but to revive it as well. THEN we may talk about costlier C4. Then and ONLY then, we can TALK about it. As it is now any MAX can be rezzed everywhere by any Medic around. Rearmed by any Engineer and pulled everywhere where a terminal is. Go into a base as infiltrator, hack a panel, get a MAX - WTF? MAXes are available everywhere and at any time, which is kinda ridiculous since they are much stronger than infantry (player-experience may differ from faction to faction from this theoretical approach). The only thing is, that they cost certs. A brick of C4 costs 100 inf resources and 200 certs to get. it kills a MAX instantly, in most cases with the assaulting one dieing a horrible death, while taking 1-7 targets with him. The second brick costs 500 certs making it a total of 700 certs and 200 inf resources to kill an MBT. For 300 certs more I get an AV-Turret that kills MAX units in one hit and tanks in 2-4 hits depending on where you stand when the rocket is launched. The rockets are free, the turret is deployable for free. Where are the complaints about this one? Nowhere...strange. (1000 certs) A direct hit with the Decimator and a few shotgun rounds should take care of any MAX pretty fast - no complaints. (1000 certs) Instead of the shotgun you can use LMG-fire as well... you don't have to get too close then, increasing the surviving aspect a lot. This is balanced well, but a costly c4 run is not.... strange. PS: if every LA would use the Healing Consumables would there be a massive discussion about immortal LA floating around killing EVERYTHING? Including destroying tanks with a pistol and one shotting MAXes (look for Dim-Ones post in the MAX forum...).
The reason the MAX now costs 3.5 times more than C4 is because it provides constant boosted firepower at longer ranges. Yes, C4 is now actually cost effective as a counter to MAXes and Vehicles, but you are still left with the problem of actually deploying it on the target, and doing so in a timely manner before the target has already annihilated your side. C4 statistics are rather weird. Fire Count is definitely not how many times you have used C4. I think it is actually how many targets you have dealt damage to. (and don't ask me what the Hits Counts column is, because it is definitely not Hits Count as I have less Hits Count than kills)
you don't play NC right NC MAXes don't provide firepower at range further than 3m I think the used C4 is indeed the fire count. If not you could throw 10.000 c4 bricks in the warpgate without it ever being counted... so every thrown c4 brick is counted as one shot fired. (Perhaps it is the amount of times you hit the trigger for the c4 charges... I will check this tonight.)
-sigh- Fine, raise the price of C4 to 350 infantry resources. However, while it is in hand, it activates a overshield that absorbs an additional 1000 damage which is affected by your suit slot (Flak armor absorbs 50% from explosives, Nanoweave increases it, etc). In addition, C4 blast radius needs to increase to cover a 10m radius. Yes I said 10m RADIUS. Alternatively, you can raise the cost of C4 to 450 resources. While in hand, a block of C4 allows LA to literally fly at 140+mph and activate afterburners. It also gives them rockets that they fire from their eyes. Other infantry types move over land at 40-50 mph and can fire laser beams from their eyes that destroy tanks in 5 shots or so. Sound fair? No? Dawwwwwww. Your resources pay for increased mobility, survivability, firepower, and/or speed. C4 gives you none of these things and simply allows you to blow up 1 or 2 tanks, some infantry, or a MAX suit. None of which, by themselves, are a significant enough of a threat when compared to the larger battlefield at hand. You do not understand the reasoning behind the resource system. It is not what the item can destroy, it is what the item can do for you, and how much it can enhance your game play. C4 does not pack the same punch as any vehicle/MAX suit does. They do not compare, stop crying.
I finally found a wolfwood comment I actually liked... incredible Stop crying is a pretty good summary. If something is commonly used there are (nearly) always people using it claiming it to be OP. (Like ZOE MAXes, Lib-Gunners pre-nerf, and such). It says a lot that there is no user of C4 claiming that c4 is OP...
Lol, your post is actually pretty funny, not in a I think you are trolling way but in a genuinely funny way. I actually do use C4 quite a bit though, C4'ing guys who are not paying attention is pretty satisfying cause they get what they deserve. I just think the resource prices for vehicles in GU11 should go down some though because there are so many Anti-Vehicle/MAX Weapons on the field, the prices should not be as low as Pre-GU11 but definitely below the current 450 for an MBT, 350 for a Max (Which costs more than a Lightning, really?) This is how I would have re-done the resource system: MBT: 375 Mechanized Resources Lightning: 300 Mechanized Resources Sunderer: 350 Mechanized Resources Flash: 100 Mechanized Resources Harasser: 250 Mechanized Resources ESF: 250 Aerospace Resources Liberator: 350 Aerospace Resources Galaxy: 300 Aerospace Resources MAX: 250 Infantry Resources This means you could get exactly 2 MBT's with a full mechanized resource pool, or 2 Lightnings, or 2 Sunderers, or 7 Flash's, or 3 Harassers. For Aerospace resources, if your resource pool is full, you could get 3 ESF's, 2 Liberators, or 2 Galaxies. Last but not least, if you have a full infantry resource pool you could pull 3 Max's. But for some of them they do not drain your resource pool entirely, the only one that does that is an MBT if you pull 2 of them, if you are a smart driver you can stay alive long enough to have enough for 2 MBT's by the time your tank blows up but sometimes you get unlucky and some tank mines are on the vehicle pad.
I think that change seems pretty fine to me. Maxes are very powerful and even if C4 CAN (with flak armor, I'm pretty sure you don't die at full health) kill them with one hit, it doesn't necessarily do. And it depends on the distance between the C4 and MAX. And it's also not that easy to get close enough to a MAX to blow it up with a C4, as it is with almost anything else. If the MAX plays well and id supported by his teammates, it hsould not be possible to reach him or he shouldn't run into C4. Right now, C4 is almost the only thing that is really effective agaisnt MAXes.. aside from rockets but rockets are not that efficient in close quaters and they can't lock on MAXes. If you attack a MAX with rocket launcher, there are good chances he'll take you down (depending on how far you are) and he'll get repaired right after that. There could have been a small increase of C4 from 25 to 75 more ressources points.
Again, you are confusing the primary issue. You say there are so many anti-MAX/tank weapons, there's nothing specifically designed to kill a MAX suit and HA rockets pack the same punch as actual tanks, but are specialized for the role. MAX suits die more often then not to hails of gunfire, not well planned C4 bombings. They can also be resurrected, this adds to their value. Tanks flat out ignore small arms fire and can ONLY be damaged by bigger guns, this cuts a good sized chunk off the things they have to worry about (including a very large portion of the infantry running around). These are features you pay for with resources. You keep running into that same block. Comparing the item with what can destroy it rather then just looking at what the item does and how much it enhances you as the player. You are trying to base the cost of the item on the assumption that it will be destroyed by C4 or rockets every time. Likewise you can't base the cost of C4 on the assumption that it will destroy a tank every time. It's funny because it's the exact same thing I've told you and others when you bring up the thing that pisses you off the most. Your reaction then is entirely different... I guess the situation is different because someone's crying against something you favor this time. Just another interesting observation. Messaiga at least shows a bit more willingness to meet someone half way on the topic. Shows more maturity then most people on the forums.
i did this test only last night, because in another thread we were discussing weather or not a C4 would kill a max flack armor max. from full health, 1 bar of c4, while the max standing 1 meter from it would take half the health damage. it is exactly 50% like the description of the flack armor says. that also means, that with flack rank 1, you don't die to 1 bar of C4. you're close, but not dead.
