well not really. Vast majority of cap point/scu/gen buildings can be easily covered from the outside, without being exposed to direct fire. 50m range gives a lot of leeway.
I think that is the big issue with motion spotters. The default range of the low level spotter is so small. The low level dart has infinite range...you can toss it 150m if you wish. That seems more flexible to a low BR infiltrator. A maxed out motion spotter with 50m range is *fantastic* and incredibly flexible. But you have to spend a couple thousand certs to get there.
Those problems are only for low level tools. Once maxed, they last fairly long. The problem with the low level one is that they expire fast, they scan slowly and most importantly, they have a SUPER tiny radius. Way smaller than the circle on the minimal, which makes them useless except for the one who threw them (usually in a doorway or somewhere small for low lvl darts). And it's bad for everybody else because it gives a false impression of knowing where the enemies are. Darts let me scan a whole base before I even get there, so I know where to enter from, and where everybody is. Motion spotter is only useful once you're on place, and it reveals your location. It's also destroyable (who ever bothered to shoot darts? Nearly nobody). The only information that's usefull that it gives you is the direction they are facing, but to be honest, I can tell where they are facing just by the layout of the map/position and the red dot direction. Darts are way more flexible for that imo. Also 50m radius on darts
Been there, done that - that works only if you have engineers with half a clue around so you have tons of darts to blow, which is not a given. I used to run dry all the time with darts which is not the case with well placed dildars. Also dildars are a great bait which is nice. Yes the number of infiltrators required to cover a base with dildars is bigger, like 3 instead of 1, but that 1 dude is refreshing the darts pretty much full time and is otherwise useless. Also i merely objected to the notion that dildars are useless because you see things with your own eyes already. Nope, they work through walls and it's possible to place them in a way they don't get autodetected on the enemy minimap. the info about skillsuits mentioned earlier is very valuable too. Flimsy dots don't tell you that you are about to faceplant into a scatmax.
the price to max out is similar for both, almost 1800c. the scanning range of default darts is ridiculously weak too. Sure they are ranged but low ranked darts are still crap, they fade out fast and you have what, 2, 3 of them? 2 years ago most of dedicated infils were not sure that thing even works so we were very hesitant to pour hard earned certs into it, given there was no xp from it and killing was the only source of certs. It came to light that not only it has a lousy range on low ranks, but also a lousy refresh rate plus it required to be inside the scanned area to get the info and becames awesome when maxed out. 1780c for the chance to find out was extremely painful. Some details have changed since then but you still don't see any significant utility until you hit rank 4 or so. In general i find the cert walls on infil abilities ridiculous. Engie and medic can print certs on industrial scale for the fraction of the cost, while being perfectly fine by default, but god forbid infils get useful before dumping almost 2k on anything.
I usually need ~2 darts to cover the base I want, and I have 5. And no, shooting a dart takes ~2s, you're not refreshing them all the time. Spawn, aim where you want while running there, and profit. If there's an engie (friendly or enemy) that dropped ammos, all the better, but otherwise, there's usually plenty of darts. It's all about maxing the tool. Darts also work through walls.. but spotters are easy to kill with an EMP if really needed. Though usually I got the area covered with a dart so I can just go shoot it without being worried of being ambushed. As far as maxes go, I'm not worried by those, I already found my way to deal with them with an infiltrator, I'd say I only die to a face-to-face max like 1/25 times, if not half of that.
amp station being overrun with a multipronged attack takes way more than 2 darts to cover. To get 100% coverage you'd need to shoot let's say one for every tower (that's around 7) + like 2-3 to cover the central building. Shooting only 2 sounds like a reactive not a proactive measure and i prefer the sweeping, proactive one as i don't trust pubs with the blinders on to be aware of all enemy movements in the whole area. That's how you lose battles. Yes, it would require a similar number of dildars to get the coverage of similar quality but they last forever if the meatgrinder gets static. EMPing dildars is a lousy deal in most cases, trading a non-free consumable to undo an ammo based thingie. I got 5, you are not going to have 5 nades. what about other peasants on your team? Do they also know how to deal with them so they get 4% failure rate?
You don't need to cover ALL the amp station, only relevant areas, and usually the one I'm in. Granted it might take 3-4 darts, but it's still all good. And 1 infiltrator can do it instead of 3-4. I don't emp them often, but it can be a solution. Also reveals any infiltrator hidden beside it. And yes you can place a new one, but at at your feets I don't care about the peasants in my team, so that's not my problem I played infiltrator back in the days when there was no faction color to the cloak. I got rid of my peasant loving spirit after getting killed by just as many allies as enemies.
I *always* EMP enemy spotters. I also carry 4 EMP nades on my cqc inf. I know the tremendous value that spotter is giving to the enemy, so I am always eager to remove it from the field. Killing 1 enemy spotter easily saves 3 allies from an early death. Oh, and it takes me off their radar too The resource cost of the grenades is nothing. Running inf, there is simply no way to run low on resources. Our most expensive toys are claymores, and those are pretty slow use items with a max of 2.
Too bad you are only one person ;-) During the last few months i've met an infiltrator willing to trade emps for spotters exactly once, and i have won.
If you're positing a 1 on 1 infiltrator deathmatch, that is a totally different scenario. In a "real" battle, I'm always amazed by players who won't stop to shoot a spotter sitting right at their feet. They simply don't realize how much intel that spotter is giving the enemy. But then, they probably did stop once to shoot one and got ganked for it. "I won't do that again" LOL
it was as real as it gets, one of the classics in fact - Eisa Tech Plant. I dropped it outside, right next to the mech spawn wall and to my surprise it disappeared few seconds later. I had to plant it 2 more times or so That said it is indeed mindboggling how many people straight up ignore them. You are right that being ganked is a very real possibility. Dildar is a perfect bait, it's so small that one pretty much has to stand still to aim accurately enough to hit it, which makes one a free food if itsa trap.
No, he's not the only one. I walk with EMP+Bandolier too. However, don't misunderstand: having 4 EMP grenade doesn't mean we throw them at every spotter you see. This would not, as you said, be a "winning" trade if you use them like that. EMP grenades are mostly to use when enemies are entrenched in a position with a spotter with them (like a capture point room), and you feel your allies are about to move forward against it: the goal is not to deplete the spotters the enemy infiltrator can have, but to screw with the enemy organisation at the most critical time, where your soldiers are about to enter the position. The EMP grenade, in one blow will: - remove the spotter at least for a few seconds (infiltrator rarely stand exactly where it is the best to drop a new spotter) - weaken the nearby enemies - neutralize spitfire turrets - blow up the mines they could have laid in the way (and occasionaly kills someone standing to close) You don't throw the EMP grenade to deny the enemy infiltrator to have spotters. You throw the EMP grenade because weaken the entrenched position of the enemies in a bunch of various ways. ... now, the real problem is... the EMP grenade is a hell to time well with an allied assault when we are not in vocal, because the effects don't last long. But the fact you have 5 spotters and me only 4 grenades is not even an issue for what it is used for.
-Darts don't last very long without being fully certed so many don't use them. -MANY infiltrators simply don't know how to play the class itself, as demonstrated by how easily I kill most infiltrators I come across as an infiltrator. Those guys who will stand on a cliff, STAND and continuously fire at your platoon etc without ever moving or cloaking. I mean these guys will even go right back to doing the same thing after being revived twice. This is why I often can't trust random people I don't know to counter-snipe. There are other behaviors but this gives you the idea of the lack of intuitive people playing infiltrator.
The only people who should need the recon devices are the Infiltrators themselves. In order to do our jobs effectively, we often need to breach enemy lines. This often leads to situations where we're surrounded by enemies. The radar tools (Detect Tool and Darts) help us avoid detection. As someone said earlier, Infiltrators have limited quantities of radar tools -- it's not like healing and repairing, which are infinite. Furthermore, an Infiltrator sitting in a pack of friendly units is missing the entire point of the class. If you're one of the poeple crying about this, while on the front lines in a pack of friendly infantry (and you don't have some sort of clue where your enemies might be coming from) radar will not help you.
