[Vehicle] Why were A2A tomcats "Removed from Play"?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by iller, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. iller

    If ya don't understand the question... and that still means like 99% of you who just prefer Nosegun-on-Nosegun dogfighting ONLY ... then you too DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION I AM ASKING.... do this real quick:

    Go into the Training VR Room real fast, and try out all the different ESF secondaries and especially compare them to the DPS of the Rotaries...


    ...then and ONLY THEN come back and answer my question please. And prove that you actually read the question by citing how much damage per minute you calculated the A2A's with only the Lockon time or Lockon range upgrades. Thank you.
    • Up x 1
  2. Silkensmooth

    Because pilots don't like weapons that dont have to be aimed? No one cares about the dps. Weapons that require no skill to use don't belong in a fps.

    They still absolutely wreck libs.

    You still have skilless coyotes.

    First person shooters are supposed to be about aiming and leading, not putting a giant circle over something and then getting EZ kills.

    They were especially awful in larger air battles, and are still ridiculous against libs.

  3. LaughingDead

    So just remove the weapon altogether then? Except they didn't. They nerfed yet another thing so far into the ground it might as well be dead, along with no refunds on it.

    If it was still ok against libs and gals I'd not make a fuss over it, but as it stands you can dodge them by slightly leaning to the left and watching the missile spin its wheels as if it was a 12 year old lemur hyped up on coke.

    It's not fun to get hit by lockons, but its even less fun working towards buying a weapon only to have it suddenly become even more useless than it already was.
    • Up x 4
  4. TRspy007

    gotta agree, this leaves ****** pilots like me with less fighting capability against skilled pilots in libs
    • Up x 2
  5. Silkensmooth

    Except that a2a missiles are even BETTER vs libs now. Takes 4 volleys to killa lib and they are not able to be dodged by libs.
  6. LaughingDead

    https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Tomcat_A2AM_Pods

    March 20th update, increases decreases locktime by .5 seconds, increases reload time by 6 seconds. These rockets were not given a damage increase, they are not better verses libs from that specific update. Making them "less maneuverable" means "if they lean slightly to the left or if the guy isn't standing still, this will miss". This was basically a straight nerf, do not give me this ******** that they're great now, even after the change that ACTUALLY gave them a damage increase against heavy vehicles, they weren't used. Why? Because in the time that it would take to launch 8 volleys, you would've been chipped down by gunfire, be at the enemy warpgate or be tickled by hyenas or walkers til ya died. How long does it take to launch 8 volleys? 30 ******* seconds, not counting if there were misses which you know is going to happen because the locking is garbage. 30 seconds is the time it would take for me to plink a liberator down from the bottom with a default nosegun at the longest possible range I could hit it. What am I trading for this inconsistent as **** missiles? Afterburners, the greatest asset to an ESF escape tactic and hover dueling, a staple of A2A ESFs.

    They also lowered the cert costs for upgrades, great, I don't have those certs back AND its a garbage weapon.
    • Up x 2
  7. Silkensmooth

    Sorry that you have to actually aim now. But if you try it you will find that it is a lot more fun, both for you and the person whom you are attacking. Or you can use coyotes which are even less skill based than a2a missiles.

    Also, go fly a lib against a2a missiles, because your postr makes you look as though you are ignorant of the actual game mechanics.
  8. JibbaJabba

    Tomcan'ts are the way they are so that no semblance of A2A dogfighting skill from any other game carries over to planetside. You must hover duel or ****.
    • Up x 2
  9. adamts01

    I've never seen another game with missile mechanics as ****** as Tomcats. Unlimited turn speed, no real flares... They're just a bad, indefensible addition to this game.

    I haven't touched this game since last year, but if those things can be dodged by ESF now, that's the first real improvement to air that thus game has seen in a long while. It's just sad that Libs had to get **** on to give those weapons a place.
  10. Demigan

    This always cracks me up.

    In the old days flak wouldn't detonate immediately. Instead it would detonate the moment the distance to the aircraft got bigger. This meant that if you managed to beat the COF and hit close to the aircraft you dealt more damage.

    This feature was cut under loud applause of the aircraft community because it rewarded skill.


    There are plenty of ways that lock-ons could still be made a viable skill-based weapon. For example, give them a small flak detonation range (say 2m instead of the 8m that flak has) and make them wire-guided like Hornets. Also slow these missiles down (but not too much), meaning you have to guide these missiles to where the opponent is going to be rather than in their general direction for a hit. Bam and we have skillful A2A missiles.

    Ofcourse, progressive thinking hasn't been a strong suit of most pilots. But I hope that someday some pilots will see merit in it.
    • Up x 2
  11. Crayv

    I don't buy the whole "it doesn't require aiming" bit. It has an aiming reticle the size of a pump action that you have to have the target stay in (the fastest most maneuverable things in the game) for an extended period of time and if they manage to leave for even a millisecond you do zero damage and have to start all over again.

    Then even if you do live long enough to get that lock (a person who can aim can take you from full to dead in that time) they can skillfully press F to flare out or skillfully waggle the mouse while holding down space bar to dodge it. It is easier to shoot a Galaxy than to achieve a lock on another ESF.

    I see complaining about them the same as someone going for headshots, missing most of their shots then getting gun downed by a guy going for body shots and complaining about how their "skill" wasn't rewarded.
    • Up x 4
  12. Demigan

    Ok so I was a bit unfair in my last post, I based my assumption that pilots aren't progressive thinkers who actually do not care about skill on a single event from literal years ago.

    Fortunately I've made about 30 threads on this subject and can compile a bit of a trend from pilots on this subject.

    I've repeatedly posted idea's for skillful G2A weapons to start replacing the current deterrents. I plan in some restrictions to prevent these weapons getting out of hand and the reaction of the pilots is...
    "You want to clear the skies without skill". So a thread that is quite literally about skillful G2A weapons with clear restrictions to prevent them becoming OP or clearing the skies is shot down by pilots who want skillful weapons? How odd...

    Then there's the thread where I proposed that if aircraft are going to dominate, allow all types of aircraft to dominate. Get some variation in the air by allowing Galaxies, Liberators and Valkyries to get more distinct AI, AV and AA roles. For example I proposed the Valkyrie to have a more helicopter role where rumble seats can be certed to be replaced by pilot-controlled weapons. In that same proposal I said that the ESF should see it's it's low-skill point-and-click secondary weapons nerfed (Hornets and Rocketpods are point-and-click against ground) and receive skillful bombs to drop on enemies instead.
    Pilot reaction, "you got killed as a vehicle by air, just relax and respawn", naturally accomodated by things on the lines of "no it would hurt skillful play". So I get told that I want aircraft AV nerfed into the ground by adding non-existing AV options to the aircraft. I also get told that I don't want skillful gameplay... By introducing skillful weapons for ESF to use.

    Then I also proposed the omnidirectional afterburner that takes less skill to use as it just takes the input of the user for the direction to afterburn in. This would lower the time it takes for newbs to learn some maneuvers, make some maneuvers that don't give any advantage now useful and bring newbs and veterans closer in power.
    This was shot down by the pilots who claimed that "it would only make veterans own even more". So you are fine with veterans owning everything but you draw the line at Veterans owning even more? Even though at worst the status-quo is retained and at best what I proposed will actually do what I advertise and make the air-game a more varied playingfield where more types of skill can be successful?
    And let's not forget that pilots complained about requiring more than a single run to kill a vehicle with Hornets or a TB run for example? Or defended Rocketpods wiping out entire squads or noseguns and rocketpods functioning as TB's in their own right in the early days?

    And in the same vein as the omnidirectional afterburner I proposed changes to both the current controls by allowing full mouse-control and also change aircraft frame options to change how you fly and engage each other, but got the exact same arguments from the pilots as the omnidirectional afterburner?

    So with all these idea's where the amount of skill required to play and the amount of variety and skillful options available would grow, it was the pilots who were against it!!




    So when a pilot says "we want skillful play" please forgive me if I puke on that pilot's heap of horsecrap covered in bullexcrement and set it on fire.


    TL: DR,
    Pilots saying "we want skill" is like the KKK saying "yes we want more diversity of color on our plantation" and then going to the market to buy some slaves. Techniquely they did what they promised, but they are dead wrong in their methods.
    • Up x 2
  13. Skraggz

    Excuse me Demigan.... don't group all pilots there, As long as AA is skillful I 100% AA needs to be buffed. I do not disagree that AA feels bad and unrewarding.

    I also, as some one that flies often don't oppose your omnidirectional thrusters, though I would rather the flight controls become more like other games by means of an option in the setting.

    There are bad players that fly, tank, and run on foot. Then there are ones that understand something isn't right.

    Also, that said, I want skill... :p
    • Up x 1
  14. Demigan

    Yes not all pilots are as bad as all that, but the demographic I'm trying to reach does not accept nuance and will use it to go "well ofcourse not all pilots are that bad in fact most are great and awesome people if you get to know them and I'm not one of those bad pilots I'm one of those that truly helps all newbs to learn the air-game in a safe and friendly environment like all the time no exceptions and the experience of newbs being specifically targeted by gank squads at warpgates are just lying bastards who do not appreciate the air-game as I do also that skillful weapon you designed and would change the status-quo that is in my favor I'm going to say that it is designed to kill aircraft with no skill because you hate aircraft and you are bad".

    Therefore if you are one of the truly good guys of pilots, assume I'm not talking to you. For thos that are one of them then you know fully well that you are and know this applies to you.
    • Up x 1
  15. Zanaffar

    Wow demibro. You have some delusions again? What the fk you know about air game. Not even one gun auraxed and closest one to is airhammer. So lol teaching players with 10k+ kills how airgame should be and if omni directional afterburner give us even more advantage or not. Really i dont know if you are on your personal crusade to be biggest clown of this forum or not. So please enlighten us even more maybe we can learn something from you about airgame. Maybe do some tutorials for us.
  16. Demigan

    I dont know where you get your info but I do have auraxed the AH and the Vortex.

    Also isnt it hypocritical for you to comment on the amount of aircraft weapons I aurax while at the same time those same pilots make all these threads about G2A that according to them annihilates everything but they have less than 50 kills usually with all G2A weapons combined.

    Maybe, just maybe, could you stick your head out of your rear and recognize that you dont have to have played something ad-infinitum to be able to make a good observation.
    Ofcourse you dont want to do that, you just want to insult me instead of providing a good solution.

    Also since Skragz points out he is an aircraft pilot with some hours behind his belt agrees with me, shouldnt you be bashing him as well? After all he cant be a pilot like YOU if he agrees with some of my "no aircraft weapons auraxed" visions right?

    Fact: the air-game is the worst part of PS2, which is why it is the least played despite the fact that most people try the air-game in any game.

    Fact: it doesnt matter if I talk about something the air-jockeys do a lot or something they never even touch, as long as it impacts their air-gane they will insult me and twist meanings to keep the status-quo. Case in point: you.

    Fact: people who benefit from the status-quo will try to keep it that way even at the cost of everyone else and the game they play.
  17. LaughingDead

    I've always used the afterburns setup, if not I'm using the wyrm.

    Going back on what you said however, brings nothing to the table besides that you're biased as all hell. If you have a problem with tomcats, instead of parading them around as if they're a godly weapon; claiming them to be even better after their .5 lock time buff and 2 second reload nerf and tracking nerf, maybe you can make an argument on why they shouldn't do X. Me on the otherhand, I just want weapons to be practical, a lockon that misses a slowly moving target, is not practical.
  18. LodeTria

    Nah the worst part of PS2 is the territory meta-game. That **** has been even less negelected than the air game and is basically pointless these days. Since even Air vehicles can give you good stats & certs, territory play gets you hoarding cats & furstration.
  19. F20000GL

    you are making fin of them
    the game was already dying and directx 11 revived it

    what is happing is new players will come so exicted to see air vehicles ... they will try to fly veterens will farm them ... new players get frusterated and leave the game .. the game doesn't make money = daybreak close the server

    once the servers are closed all the aim and skills you have will mean nothing
    air to air lock on were in the game since start and it was a good balance point in air combat if some pilot killing so many people on the ground you can get ESF with tomact and make kill him and back to ground ...but now if the server is not full which is most of the time day and night if there is veteren pilot flying he will farm everyone on the ground and anyone try to fly aginst him will be farmed even more ....i have seen most of the time when good pilots flying an entire squad log off to not to be farmed by him as they can't kill him by the ground or air

    the players who like hoverdueling are minotiry players and the majority don't like it .

    most player in this game are young boys have schools and young men have college or work ....they cannot affrod to spend weeks in VR then weeks to be farmed by veteren pilots

    higher skills required = lower player base (fact)
    lower player base = lower income (common sense)
    lower income = doesn't worth the work (dybreak is a game company not a charity)
    if the game didn't make money the servers will be closed
    if the servers are closed all your skills will mean nothing ... there will be no game to put your skills into use ...there will be no server to log into .. there will be no ESF to fly

    now it's a good chance to change things while there are a whole new player base is froming before the frustration comes and these people leave

    here is a post from another guy
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...rent-state-of-air-combat.251896/#post-3530280
    here is a post ai made
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...r-combat-is-just-dueling-its-horrible.251840/
    and a post from 2017
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/air-combat-is-too-difficult.247693/
  20. TR5L4Y3R


    ... errr don´t you wan´t to say it has been neglected more than air? .. cause less neglected is rather positive ...
    • Up x 1

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