Why VS win all alerts ?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Eroulca, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Campagne

    "Admitted" has a hostile connotation in this context, I'd say moreso "acknowledged." :p PS2 is a social environment, not an experiment. We're not testing anything, only looking at a population. This is a strawman, sadly. I didn't say their equipment was overpowered, just that the majority of their weapons are better suited than other types more common in the NC and to a lesser extent the TR. 143/750s to 167/600s tend to perform the best in all situations in my opinion, whereas 125/800+s and 200/500s tend to suffer unfairly even in their ideal circumstances. The VS has almost exclusively 143s & 167s while also having weapons and equipment featuring additional benefits such as above average accuracies or bonuses like unstable ammo. The TR lack these special bonuses and the NC just have too many weapons ill-suited for real gameplay. Vehicles are yet another thing which as I've said before I feel strongly contribute to the NC's losses, while the TR don't see the same fate.

    I'm afraid that is literally the perfect example of perception bias. You're stating an anecdotal personal experience and are claiming it is fact. I've played in squads from all factions and the most I've ever seen is just the usual "head to the waypoint" style of "leadership." Numbers matter more than plans do in PS2. At most a couple of players can park some gals at the WG and wait for them to fill up then drop 'em on the point against their will. Cooperation and communication is not required for success.

    VS isn't a special breed but they are comprised of majoritarily team-oriented players almost exclusively? That's just a contradiction. If players who chose the VS were or became team-oriented wouldn't that imply the VS are special in this way? And again, there is literally zero reason to believe this. And furthermore once again why would those players be stuck playing the VS and could not affect or spill over to the other factions, especially when people player other factions as well?

    Speaking of not being clear, I can't help but feel you're just ignoring my arguments.

    Oh boy. You tell me I'm wrong but prove my point. You and your ilk bullied a petty officer because he was different. He wasn't one of "you," he was one of "them" from the air force. Any promoting he may have earned couldn't have possibly originated from the schooling or training he was receiving at the time or possibly through the hardships of social influences and factors outside of your own realm, showing him a mediated approach to dealing with others in a chain of command may not always work and that perhaps a tyrant and a bastard may be despised by those below him but his goals and aspirations can be achieved in ways they couldn't be otherwise if he acted with tact or patience with others around him. It also could not possibly be that different behaviours are accepted in different subcultures and that dealing with a new group of peers for an extended period of time can slightly alter a person's behaviour in ways which will be challenged upon returning to old groups... As evidenced by being sent to anger management despite his presumably same behaviour being tolerated by his comrades in the marines.

    Once again however, combat on the ground requires different skills and behaviours than operating an aircraft. This is not true for Planetside 2 in the same sense, as all players can act as all aspects of an armed military force. There is nothing to draw a person into one faction over another on the basis of risk, skill, requirements, or any other preference in regards to combat type.

    Also once again, anecdotal personal story "confirming" your preexisting beliefs.
    • Up x 1
  2. JibbaJabba



    Serious answer: They don't.

    During primetime when servers are running near full the balance is nearly equal.
    There was a bug at one time, not sure if fixed, but basically it threw all tie games to faction 0 which happened to be VS.

    Outside of primetime populations tend to have trends. NC for example swells on emerald around 1-2am. TR seems to have a surge on weekends around 11pm at the tail end of primetimes. VS I've seen surge during daytime on weekends.

    Because there are trends in population there are corresponding trends in wins. If you find yourself getting online during the same off hours each day, you may indeed see it common for a given faction to win during that time.
  3. Campagne

    |
    *Cough*
    *Cough*
    |
    If the differences in alert victories was due purely to population trends during off hours, why would we still see a uniform performance across the board across all servers? Servers that have different prime times...

    This clearly not a valid explanation of the differences. There is no evidence for this.
  4. LodeTria

    In what universe are the Saron & Amphellion anti infantry weapons?
    Your cmplete lack of vehicle expertise is showing again. Post your damn character already so we can see what a joke you are.
  5. LordKrelas

    Saron is AV, did I have a second typo in there?
    I did list Amp as AI, when it's AV just like the Vulcan, but I did not list Saron as AI, I described it as anti-vehicle.

    So outside of trying to personally attack me..
    Do you have any actual thing about the subject to say, that Disproves the point I tried to make?
    Or do you have something else, outside of trying to attack credibility of the person, like perhaps making actual counter-points.
  6. LodeTria

    You said that the ES specific options for VS harassers is AI on masse, despite 2/3 being AV weapons. This is literally your first bullet point.

    So again, how is the VS "Anti infantry on masse". This is also strange because the marauder, the TR weapon, is the current best of all the faction AI weapons, all of which are worse than kobalts anyway.
  7. LordKrelas

    NC has a shotgun, TR has an Arcing Grenade, and VS has a large-radius AOE weapon.
    I see more PPA's, than Marauders, likely since TR Vulcans.

    Kobalts are brutally effective, but lack ability to damage armor - But yes, are hella nice.
    The end result of every line was; NC does not have what these two winning factions have.
    When it came to differences.

    But regardless, thank you for finally making statements, that aren't Personally after me.
  8. LodeTria

    The PPA and the marauder have the exact same AoE radius of 3m.
    The PPA has a max damage of 250 AoE, 310 direct + AoE. The Marauder has a max damage of 334 AoE & 409 Direct +AoE.

    The only thing the PPA has over the marauder is fire-rate, even it's projectiles are slower. This is also completly negated by how fast it blooms anyway, it's worse than the Saron.

    Your assumtion that the "VS are anti-infatry on masse" is completely wrong & shows how inexperienced your assumtions are.
  9. LordKrelas

    Do you have a better notion of how a AOE weapon, Unstable Ammunitions, accurate weapons, are not AI.
    And how NC, which is the most specialized faction, are losing?

    Are you sure it's Inexperience?
    You don't rapid-fire a Saron, past short-range. Otherwise it's pin-point accurate.

    What do you think makes VS win, and NC rather than TR lose.
    Actual question.
    Btw, I'm VS and NC, more than TR.
    So if you say Skill, then how I do not drag the entire VS population of 30, down massively if I was crap.
    As I pull every vehicle type, past Galaxies & Liberators, quite often.
    And I am no vehicle ace, but if there's only 20 tanks, One apparently crap driver has more effect than 1 in 200 tanks.
  10. adamts01

    Overpowered. Overpowered (often abbreviated to OP) is a common term referring to a perceived lack of game balance.

    This is your ENTIRE argument. Get your story straight.
  11. Campagne

    Come on man, you can't even pretend that you're not just ignoring all my arguments now? At least when you were scrupulously inspecting some small red berry-like fruit of a select grade growing from a tree for personal consumption you made it look almost as if you weren't just cutting out the bits you couldn't contest. Honestly! :p

    Secondly, show me where in this thread I said anything was overpowered.

    Weapons and equipment can be better than others without being brokenly good. For example, take the Cyclone. It's pretty much just better than any other SMG for the most part and is a decent good gun, and isn't overpowered. You can bet your bottom dollar if all of the NCs guns were as good as the Cyclone is they'd win a hell of a lot more and this thread would be "Why NC win all alerts ?" There'd be people still blaming Wrel, people blaming Smedly, people would be saying the NC are just more skilled, people saying the NC are just more team-oriented...

    And thirdly, my entire argument is that there is an obvious imbalance between the factions which has exactly one realistically possible explanation, which is a large number of small imbalances with a large overall impact on interfaction balance.
    • Up x 1
  12. Demigan

    If you do go on that hunt, add BPS (Bloom Per Second), I did a few calculations for TR and NC Carbines a while back. You can find them here:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...-game-designer-a-message.252341/#post-3535825

    I suggest you shortcut your work by using similar weapons on the VS side and compare those so you have at least a starting point for reference.
  13. adamts01

    That's the definition of a faction being overpowered.

    And yes, I'm ignoring the rest of your argument. It's absurd to ignore a social aspect when the core of what we're talking about is groups of people.
  14. adamts01

    I thought of you and your self loathing NC attitude when I read this.
  15. Campagne

    Well to be fair it's probably more accurate to say the NC is just underpowered rather than the Vanu Scum being slightly overpowered, given the differences between the VS & NC and VS & TR in terms of victories. But of course, both can be true. ;)

    Actually I think you will find I did not ignore the social aspect of players, I just didn't make quite frankly stupid illogical claims with no basis in reality. As always the larger a population becomes the more and more average it gets. In statistics a sample of 30 or more is considered large, we're dealing with several to hundreds of thousands of players. A population of this size has astronomical consequences for the type of claims you're making.

    And finally, just ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away and refusing to acknowledge an argument doesn't make you right. You can stick your head in the sand all you want but the truth will still be there, waiting.
  16. adamts01

    That's only true when counting a group as a whole. Say all players of Planetside. Consider job specialization. A small company means everyone has to do a little of everything. A large company can subdivide in to specialized departments. A squad during off hours basically takes what it can get. While on prime time you'll have a try hard squad, air squad, Harasser squad... The larger the player group gets, the more likely they are to find their sub group. My argument is that each faction is a subgroup of the entire playerbase. I admit you won't find the same movement faction to faction as you do squad to squad. The difference is like moving neighborhoods compared to moving countries. But that player movement between factions absolutely happens. So the debate is whether that movement happens because of only OP equipment, or is there possibly a social aspect to it?
  17. Towie

    All said and done - the faction that wins a continent alert - is the faction that gets double-teamed the least.

    A few weeks ago I led a VS platoon - started off with little territory and even lower pop after being double-teamed for some time. Then the 1.5 hour alert started and TR and NC started fighting each other.

    We managed to get a few major (read difficult to get) bases from both factions then just focused on the NC, expecting to defend heavily as the alert went on. BUT TR spent the entire session focused on NC.
    End result - we had 42% continent and an easy win (although a little hollow). I just thanked the TR and that was that.

    Last night with pretty equal pops the NC and TR double-teamed VS the whole session - and VS ended with 12% continent. Maybe they've been reading this thread ? ;)
  18. Demigan

    Not sure how I have to interpret this comment?
  19. AllRoundGoodGuy

    When in doubt, always take things as a compliment.
    • Up x 1
  20. adamts01

    You're constantly ragging on the Vanguard. As a non tanker I found these tank vs tank tests interesting. The Prowler seems like its only advantages are 2 tries to hit an ESF and two tries to hit infantry. It's semi-relevant because it seems like NC has a serious edge over VS and TR here.

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