Why Vanu on Miller fail the alerts

I'll speak here more particularly to the leaders of platoons or oufits, playing Vanu on the Miller server.
As we all know, we currently have enormous difficulties to win alerts, facing the large number of TR or the strategic inteligence of the NC.
The Vanu can not claim any of the two benefits, and instead I see more and more unmotivated people who do not even participate anymore in alerts.
It must be said sincerely, we are neither organized nor reactive. To say otherwise is just an arrogant pretension.
For alerts that occur on three continents (biolab, tech or amp), Vanu systematically focus on Indar as fierce dogs on a bone, despite always the same strong opposition from TR.
We attack the strategic locations of Indar leaving abandoned other continents, where only a few brave defenders are figurative.
It seems incredible to abandon to the ennemy the critical control points that we already have to waste our time trying to capture others which are well protected or which will take an hour to capture.
When a global alert happens, the only thought of Vanu is "zerg groups on Indar".
This is our only pseudo-strategy.
NC have understood and are now uninterested of Indar, in favor of the other two continents they catch easily (especially Esamir). This allows them to win regularly alerts, despite the dominant number of TR.

The solution for Vanu exists and we just need to copy the tactics of NC.
We must not hesitate to redeploy massively on a continent to attack by surprise, leaving enough defenders to protect specific points on Indar.
We never do that, whereas it is in our interest.

Like many Vanu on this server, I get to a point where I no longer see the need to play alerts, knowing little platoons will have a real strategic intelligence. Most of them just desire easy kills and rush always forward.
I always hear people complaining about the TR overpopulation as the main factor for their failure, while the main reason is their own lack of unity and strategy.
It is the role of leaders of platoons and outfits to consult together, with the region channel (/ re), in order to decide what could be the best tacticts and the best moves.
TR are doing it very well and that is why they are extremely effective.
Currently, a normal Vanu player, only reads contradicting or fanciful orders all day long, so he doesn't really know where to go, to help win an alert.
This is the first aspect to be changed to hope see Vanu as alert winners more often.

Kudos for realising that for a change to happen, you need to make it happen yourself.

Yup we can btich about pop-dynamics all we want
But we need alot of adhoc inter-outfit and non-outfit Teamplay in the afternoon, i am sick and tired of haveing to play an NC/TR on Ceres/Cobalt to find a good fight fast....

It's alright, as NC I get just as frustrated...

The point is correct. NC and VS are now at a point that our opposition is far less organised than it used to be. Originally, the reason for high TR numbers was simply that playing with TRAM was fun and the organisation was great. Now don't get me wrong, they're still there and they're good, but as older players have left and new ones have arrived, obviously a huge number of the more 'lazy' 'casual' types have rolled TR for the easy wins. Fortunately for us, these types don't get involved in the 'higher level' strategic stuff; they just want their battle to win, and their team to win the other battles they're not in, and that does it for them.

With that in mind, if only NC and VS would actually work (individually) as teams instead of mindless swarms avoiding conflict 'because we'll just get steamrolled', we could beat a stunned TR, as the majority of players during the alert won't be anywhere near strategically aware enough to counter the tactics we're able to utilise to run rings around them.

Obviously some types of alert simply aren't winnable, but the 'larger' ones most definitely are... If only it were possible to suggest something like that in /Re or /Orders without a load of fools telling you to chill out and that it's just a game and they just want to shoot that guy in the head etc, eh? :/ Well, eventually, natural selection will get us to the point of determination, where people -will- respond to the call to arms... Sadly, I've been waiting for three months for that now (arguably 9 months ) and it ain't coming fast...

Everything is world population. Most good 'co-ordination' you see is a few outfits with the luxury of being able to respond freely.

There was an "outfit night" on miller last week.
VS and NC turned up in force. TR got steamrolled. VS and NC pops remained about even.

Don't know if you played that night but we stomped the enemy. Especially the TR.
Nothing to do with being better or more organised.
It was simply that there were enough of us to leave a fight and RESPOND.

This is a luxury that the TR most often have.

There is very little to substititute for population. A global population advantage of about 3% translates to an overwhelming numbers advantage.
You can chose : lose this fight, or lose that fight.

There is little hope of winning when outnumbered in the local hex 3:2.
On tonights alert - we had two out of three tech plants on Indar. We can chose to try to hold them and get a really good fight
Or go to other continents spread out far too much to have a hope in hell of successfully achieving anything because of the enemy global pop advantages.

This was proven by the last efforts to attack on Esamir and Amerish while holding on Indar towards the end of the alert.
Wherever we went : 40% NC population was able to rapidly respond and crush all attempts.

Have a chat with the TR. They seem to say that NC right now have numbers and a core group of active outfits.
VS have the organisation .. but not the numbers.

Some of the VS outfits have been working together for a long time. There is nothing the most organised and co-operative of us can do with 28% world population. If we respond elsewhere, we lose here.

The paranoid say that TR and NC are ganging up on us.
There is an undue focus on Indar - because at least you get a decent fight usually maxed out at 33%/33%/33%

At the beginning of tonight's alert the TR had the dominant world population .. and VS responded accordingly.
Face off against the TR, withdraw forces against the NC. Double teamed by NC and TR both pushing for Tech plants we held.

If we lose a base we don't get it back. Because the enemy can abuse population to respond.
The NC were free to take the other two continents hammer Amerish and Esamir

By the time the alert ended NC world population was dominant ..

I don't think most Vanu even bother taking part in alerts. Prob same with NC.

Strategic intelligence of NC? That very sentence sounds wrong, at least if your server is Cobalt.

There are two different situations:

The first one, you can use only the number to be able to win. It happens everyday on Miller, during the alerts or the basic conquest gameplay. Unfortunatly the 28% Vanu cannot really count on this but in rare situations they can, you explained it very well.
The second one, you are less numerous and your ennemies seem to dominate the fights on a continent and you have all the difficuties to reach your targets. However you keep focus on the same thing over and over, but you loose because the alert is over.

I mostly described the second situation in my previous post and i will simply repeat that I find it wiser for this kind of alert (not the continent domination) to go where the ennemy expect you the less. Who cares of a decent fight usually maxed out at 33%/33%/33%. The main goal of an alert is to win, not to face and to kill as many ennemies as you can. It is only one of its good aspects.
There are many different kinds of alerts, and some require more strategy than a simple zerg focused on Indar.

Indar is currently the best place for good fights, yes, but most of the players and leaders never take a look at the three maps in order to notice that it could be easier to win an alert by moving a part of the troops somewhere else.
On a daily basis I see this kind of situation: we have already two tech plants (for exemple) on Amerish but the Vanu waste 90% of their forces to attempt a capture of two others on Indar during one hour, at the cost of loosing the ones on Amerish in ten minutes.
Call that organised, I call that a dumb strategy.

An alert has not an unlimited time, you have to control the targets as fast as you can.
Perhaps people should ask themselves if it will not take too long to capture a facility with 48+ defenders rather than another one with 10 defenders on another continent. That is exactly on what the NC are smarter than us.

It is not a mistake to take the time to understand what are our flaws and why we are not so effective, beyond the problem of the number.
I play since the creation of the alerts and before, like you, and we used to win some alerts regularly.
So I try to understand why many Vanu prefer to switch to the TR and gain the alert xp and why the TR are more attractive.
To sum up all this by "they have the best stuff" "they always win" and "they are the most numerous" seem to be a bit easy for me. We could ask ourselves why the players, veteran or new, have less and less desire to fight for the VS on Miller, especially during the alerts.
I answered that question by suggesting that it could be certainly due to our lack of strategy, while others have a better one.
The ennemies could be more numerous but players could keep fighting for the VS because they play very well.
Unfortunatly, this is less and less the case currently.



ps: sorry for my long posts, but it means that I care for my faction after all.

Feel free to post this where Miller VS OLs, PLs and SLs can actually see this instead of the official forums, might get more of the server traffic:

The Unofficial Miller webpage

The Miller SubReddit

The Miller server forums on PSU

There may be a VS alliance (I'm almost willing to bet there is because, come on, even the NC have one) webpage but I don't know the URL.

If I may offer one or two words of advice, don't follow the typical NC strategy where you find a biolab and hole up in there until the alert's over. Also, did you mean to say that the OL and PLs should consult in region channel? I think you're referring to the leadership channel. /re only works about half the time and if you say in /region that your platoon is going to recall, grab gals and drop on a base...how do you know there's not already a squad or platoon that's already looking at that option. Alert wide comms and strategy (not to mention monitoring and herding your pop) is important and can only be done in the cross continent /leader chat. Orders must be compatible and non-contradicting. Talking **** in /orders usually doesn't help but I hope y'all don't do that.

Either way, I wish ya luck! I've seen what happens when a few VS outfits coordinate and it works out really well. We all need times to step up our game and alerts can be good times for it (except biolab alerts, I think we can all agree: **** them.)

Thank you for the advices
I will visit those forums and leave a message.

When I said, we should copy the NC, i meant only the good aspects. It is always good to learn from the ennemies, but a Vanu will always stay a Vanu.

The region channel is good to ask for help on the same continent, but you are right, the leaders chat is made for the instructions, not the /re.
In general, the leaders make a good use of the /orders, but like for the three factions, you have time to time someone who shouts contradicted and selfish orders, in order to lead his own vendetta.

I am sure that we could win some of the alert kinds regularly, even with our 30% VS population, but we will have to work harder as a big team.

Yesterday the Vanu had the link on Tawrich held by the NC, 1-12 everywhere, not even a single squad to try and cap it, but for sure there was a multiple 48+ pushing on Dahaka. Sure sign the VS have given up.

As for the NC, 60% pop to steamroll Esamir then 70% to steamroll a basically empty Amerish. As someone who feels better after a tight loss than a cheap win, I cannot understand how that actually works for people. Is it so important the game gives you a pat in the back saying "great job chap, you won", is it worth the effort of spending 2 hours in uninteresting "fights" ?

I can't speak for the other Vanu obviously, but at least I try to concentrate on beating the more dangerous and harder enemy first. And that's TR at the moment. As long as the NC on Indar stay east of Allatum and Peris, I won't bother fighting them.

NC had 5 tech plants and 37% pop yesterday. How could TR be the "more dangerous and harder enemy" ? Even more so when it's extremely obvious TR don't care about the alert outcome either ?

VS just don't care and NC get to play the alerts alone, no need for excuses, it's just the way things are. As for TR seeing how leader channel is silent like never before I guess we don't have leaders anymore.

Not sure what you are getting at, you mean you dont get why NC bothered to win the alert instead of giving it to you for free and are complaining how it was a cheap win for them?

If so, wow. Just wow.
If not, please explain.

The primary opponent's momentarily weakness is a reason to strike all that harder, not to change your overall strategy.

If NC would be consistently the most populated and alert-winning faction for at least a whole week or two, I'd obviously switch my priorities. Until then, I'll fight the TR and leave the NC alone.

For any server: if during an alert an empire X pops significantly rises, empire Y and Z should asap team up and double tag empire X.
But that never happens... Mostly it is quite the opposite...

This.

Most people seem to think TR outfits have an organization that is out of this world and wizards as players, but it is in fact no more than a matter of population imbalance. Useless to circle around something that can be clearly seen in the statistical data.

And this is where we can speak of snowball effect. The original population imbalance pushed people away from Miller VS/NC and possibly some into TR, bringing us to the current data and it's not going to get any better unless a server merge happens or entire TR outfits collectively decide to abandon their faction in favour of one of the two "underdogs".

The former may happen after Hossin and Continental Lattice are added, but the latter is unlikely and for good reasons, as people have spent real money and/or lots of time on their characters to just abandon them. That, or they play TR because they like to.

Being recommended hasn't been of any help and a good 80% (made up statistic, but likely to be the case) of the newbies that came in around that time left once they were done trying the game out. Those who stayed will take time to grasp certain concepts of the game and actually be useful to the entire team.

tl;dr TR guys aren't special Snowf(l)akes as some (likely they themselves) like to believe and their outfits have good, but basic co-ordination that VS exhibits on TVA already. Numbers are the major issue here and the only practical solution seems to be a server merge.

28% pop : you can't defend amp/biolab/tech plant AND attack ennemies.

Already did. I'm just wondering if avoiding all the fight to win the alert is worth it in terms of member satisfaction. I mean they're not blind and can see for themselves that they win because they have 70% and they have 70% because the other empires don't care. Only Indar was active yesterday. I'm not complaining, didn't see Vanu Archives in weeks and we had a nice fight there. I'm just wondering if the "you won" message really makes up for 2 hours of ghostcaps.

We do not fail Vanu, we fail ourselves. I can see it every time they should push forward and instead they cower near respawn or some choke point. It happens so often that I find it more annoying than Strikers.