WHY the construction doesn't work, and an actual idea

Discussion in 'Planetside 2 Test Server: Discussion' started by Smoo, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Smoo

    Fairly simple, really: redeployside strikes again. (In PS1, going anywhere was a time investment. PS2, you just redeploy to any fight within 30 seconds.)

    So you get a half dozen, (probably at at best), people. You put in a bunch of effort, and get a nice base going. Invest a LOT of certs, a bunch of cortium, and all the time it takes to get everything positioned and going. Things start to look nice, and everything comes online.

    Then, a larger group notices it, and drops 20 MAX units on it, or a pack of tanks set up and shell the place into oblivion in a few minutes.

    Guard it? I don't think ANYONE who thinks about the issue for any time will give weight to this idea. You CANNOT ask a large group of people to just sit around, on the off chance that an assault MIGHT come. And if they do, the assault probably won't come, because those people will be taking all your bases instead.

    One school of thought seems to be making everything invulnerable. Unfortunately, invincible walls, fiery skyshields, and devastating AI turrets make for VERY good bases tucked away in corners (mostly on Hossin), but not much else. Bases out in the open still die just fine.

    But how to make base fights worth doing, and give defense a chance? While also making offense possible?
    • How about MORE construction. Like, siege tanks? So you make your own base, just to crank out a tank to kill the enemy base. Also, gives an ACTUAL POINT to base Vpad. Enemy base sees it coming, and defenders are given notice that if they want a fight, go kill that tank before it kills the base. Or just a kamikaze tank that does a large explosion.
    • Or construction items that are REQUIRED to crack decent bases. Like the existing mortars, but also a way to combat-deploy structures near an enemy base to provide spawning and shelter. Infantry are required to take the fight from there, either way, but it would give time for the base to attract defenders. Perhaps a turret version of the ANT deconstruction laser? Invulnerable to base AV fire, or to all fire from one direction?
    Any of these are not instant. A base should kill any rush, simply because it IS so effective. But picking away at the base with a few people, or using a long process to wipe out the base should be more effective than simply zerging it to death.
    • Up x 1
  2. MrowCat

    I read your post,

    and I think you should look at few modules like the Spawn Tube, it allows your base to act as a spawn on the map just like a non-player made base. There are many times in which this has saved bases, I've been apart of quite a few battles centered around a player made base. These fights are only possible because of the teamwork between squads and platoons of the same sides working to either keep the base up or to tear it down.

    One problem with having base defenses being too powerful is that you run the risk of making them unassailable by all but the most coordinated groups. I understand where that may sound pleasing but what is the point of making a base if no one will fight you at it? Besides a HIVE there would be no reason to fight them. This would cause construction to be one of those grueling fights that are not fun for anyone but the ones inside the base (almost like how Biolab fights were some years ago). In short, people would care less about HIVEs because their members would not want to get farmed for little gain meaning the whole feature would be left to only those who want to build bases and not have them fought at.
  3. Smoo

    More than the first line? Because you didn't seem to actually comprehend anything. I'm not talking about supporting existing bases, at all. If bases are weak, it takes less people to just drop in, pop the important modules and clean out anything important. If you make bases strong enough (via HP and resists) to resist fast swarm tactics, they're ridiculously overpowered for their intended purposes.

    My point is that building a base is an activity for a few people, and having many people sit there on their bums is unreasonable. It's boring, and people won't do it. And if they DID do it, it would negatively impact everywhere else.

    And that most successful base assaults that I've seen have been many people, all dropped at once. Which wipes the base before anyone notices or responds. Or a concerted rush with tanks.

    And everyone that I know has simply stopped making bases. Because it's not a fight, you just build out in the middle somewhere. Then, a couple galaxies full of various types of AV show up, drop inside the base, and wipe out the important stuff. The fight is over too fast to be fun for anyone. The people inside wasted all that time, and the attackers just redeployed to a gakaxy, rode in, blew it, and then bailed to the next fight.

    Let's take the Kamikaze idea, for instance. If the swarm attack doesn't work, due to pain fields. To attack, you would need AV to remove the AV turrets, and protect the slow vehicle as it rolls up to the walls. So, the defenders have time to react, and it's a back and forth. The attackers may even make a small temporary base with mortar stuff to clear things out. Or build their OWN.

    Same with siege lasers on ANTs, or big tanks, or just making attacking bases to attack a base.

    It would be entirely reasonable if a well-manned base had less effective pain fields. The problem is "redeployside," and uneven force deployment wrecking fights.
  4. LordKrelas

    Those large groups are to Kill the base in the most effective method:
    If the base is capable by itself, without a single defender, defeat this group dedicated to killing it - that base is impossible to destroy if actually defended.

    In the same exact plan, on the opposite side (the Builders), is to discourage, remove any ability to survive or want to engage the PMB, making it as un-fun, hellish, and grindy as possible, to discourage anyone wanting to attack it that had a Choice.
    These same builders, then want everyone to be forced into these Deliberately-designed-hell-holes.
    That were built intentionally to remove all possible enjoyment if they could, from any attack on it.

    So you have a Base-Defense that no one wants to attack, due it being hell, and No one wanting to defend it, as No one comes reliably to it.
    Expect the Squads, whom come prepared to as quickly as possible massacre the base, spending thousands of nanites if need be, in the most kill-joy way they can -- the exact same idea the Defenders had in making it, when it came to attackers.

    If in order to engage a PMB, you needed a PMB, which is what the Orbital Strike Cannon was designed around,
    The original PMB builds this weapon, and one-shots the attacker's siege weapon, having had the advantage of their weapon being charged already, knowing exactly where, and having their entirely automated base already ready to self-repair & defend.
    Leaving the 3~ people who built it, let alone if an actual Squad built it, to retain their entire member count for use in anything they please.
    Which if added to the entirely automated defenses, is a brutal thing.
    With vehicles, at a certain point (let alone if a PMB builder actually used a bloody MBT, or ESF not just Towers & infantry), would be incinerated near instantly, unless spawned by the Defenders - making it more of a slog.
    While the dedicated Groups, would still near instantly Mulch your base, with the quickest most effective way they can.
    Which the Defense still would likely be hard-pressed to defend against, let alone if not actually guarding the base.
    Which is also intentionally used by the Attackers, in the same train of thought the Defenders had, for their enemy.

    Engage with the quickest, easiest result, with the least possible chance of failure - No consideration for the enjoyment of the method, for either side.
    Which is what the usual meat-grinder PMB design is about, as is the 12+ MAX drop with a Galaxy into the Base's core.
    Same exact thing, for the enemy: Completely kill-joy, with barely any means to engage or counter it, without doing the same.

    PMBs to attack PMBs, always favors the Defenders, let alone with all the automations.
    The lattice, favors the reverse, with no automations, and none of the fancy constructs while also designed around the engagement \ fight being enjoyable for both sides.
    PMBs are logically designed to remove any wish to engage them, and make it as grindy & unenjoyable as possible.
    Attacks on PMBs are logically designed to remove any ability to survive, enjoy, or have time to respond to them, as much as possible.

    The end result is PMB's, being an incredible bastard to attack, and an incredible bastard to defend against a dedicated squad.
    These Pain Fields, are just adding in more ways to make Hell-hole bases that serve no purpose, more grindy.
    While still demanded to be useful.

    When a PMB actually has value, not due to a FORCED requirement, value, or FORCED one-sided interaction on the gameplay,
    We'd actually see PMBs in tactical locations for Battles, making them an Aid, not a Dominate all-or-nothing factor in conquest.
    As then a PMB in a remote mountain side, sealed into a ravine, is as useless to the Builder, as it is to the entire faction.
    While a Risky PMB actually involved in supplying allied advances & defenses, is rewarded for being useful to everyone.

    Yes, Hives made the ravine-hell-hole base more valuable than the Entire Lattice for the entire game's end game, when first released.
    This was **** design.
    Hopefully, now that Hives should be dying, PMB's can be less Hive-based-BS, and converted into useful things..
    That do not dominate the entire gameplay by simply existing, but reinforce the actual gameplay - Not control it.
  5. MrowCat

    Now I haven't read anything past the firstline. I engaged your post having read it in its entirety hoping to have given you some meaningful insight by someone who does make bases regularly and is apart of an outfit that is fairly devoted to the concept. Its Star Crafters United based on Emerald and led by SoulFact. Hes renown on Connery & Emerald VS to be a dedicated base builder who started when the feature came out, hes one of the best.
  6. Sgt Mcguilicuddy

    And for the TR there is x101x, Icecreamnugget and YankeeBastid, on Emerald, who have been Construction Engineers since it was implemented. The formed an outfit devoted to PMB's and have unique and daring designs that challenge attackers. The survive Gal drops because they defend against it by smart construction techniques. They give as good as they get and you can count on a challenge if you decide to test them. PMB's are used to blockade Primary road access to parts of the interior of a continent. PMB's are used to support assaults on existing bases by providing vehicles and spawn points. The new options for PMB's on the test server are going to change the dynamic of the game in so many ways, should you examine them in detail. Have a look and see for yourself what can be done with all of the new ideas coming our way!
  7. Smoo

    We ignore them.

    Drop behind the construction, hack out a bus, and proceed down the lattice.

    Or just take loads of AV fire and batter the thing down.

    This is ALSO a symptom of Redeployside.

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