Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SolemnSeraph, Feb 27, 2015.
I don't think NS infantry weapons are an upgrade to anything, revolvers aside.
The NS weapons have low raw DPS but high accuracy, which translates into decent net effective DPS in capable hands. They are very well rounded weapons that are good at most ranges, but not the best at any. If the game was more than just fighting inside facilities with redeploy and you had to actually fight on the more open terrain between facilities, less people would be using CQC oriented weapons as their standard load out and the NS series of weapons would be a bit more common and held in higher regard.
VS weapons are exceptionally easy to use for those of us who aren't in the top 5%.
This means in a 24-24 or larger fight, mathematically, while only 1-2 players on either side are truly pro players the rest of the fighting forces are not evenly matched.
While 10 VS BR 10 newbies are running around landing a good 4-5 out of 20 shots from their Orions on the enemy, the 10 matching NC BR 10's are running around hitting a good 3* out of 15-20 rounds from their uncerted gauss saws.
*And 1-2 of those shots that are landing are landing on the back of friendly forces*
Similarly, when the VS fight TR, the TR do marginally better than the NC thanks to the TR's lower need for accuracy thanks to their higher mags and fire rates, but again the newbies on TR quickly lose control of their weapons going full auto, while VS can (relatively) easily keep their shots landing on target.
NC weapons? No they're not an upgrade. VS weapons, especially our AR's they absolutely are.
You can't compare those weapons....
Torq9 and lynx are smg damage models. Vs gets Eridani.
Face it vs, your the op faction.
So, apart from all the; NS guns, 125 DMG guns, burst guns, SA scouts, aurax SMGs, and BRs, the other factions don't get any 0.25 or lower weapons? Why do you dismiss all these weapons as awful despite them having this stat you treasure, but VS low DPS weapons are magically powerful because of it?
The NS-11A and NS-11C are long term VS favourites. For losing some RPM from your stock weapon, you gain; SPA, magazine size, ADS move speed, and improved hipfire. That you don't see their value is telling. If 143x652 is an awful gun to you, I must point out the VS get more of them than any other faction, oh, and the unique 526x167 Corvus as well.
The VS only get that stat on their AR and Carbines at 698x143 or lower, the NC get the 0.175 horizontal recoil on every single one of their 167x600 and 200x500 weapons. ARs, Carbines and LMGs. NC 167 and 200 damage weapons have low horizontal recoil and superior stationary ADS CoF, yet these accuracy stats are worthless? Additionally, for VS Ursa and Flare both have low RPM and high horizontal recoil.
NC and TR both get 2 LMGs with 0.35 ADS CoF, the VS get 0. I don't see that mentioned, since it seems that ADS CoF suddenly becomes irrelevant when it doesn't suit you.
that is not an accurate descriptor of skill
VS (infantry weapons) do not have drop which means 1 less factor when aiming at longer distance,
but they are slower bullet speed which means leading is more needed,. generally they are middle of the road for rof and dmg,
friendly to "new player" simply because they are not high aim.
NC is the high risk high reward faction, you do alot of damage with each shot, less bullets on target,
but missing is so much more costly, this makes them the high aim faction
TR have high rof with out suffering too much in bullet damage to be competitive,
by all rights they are the lowest aim requirements, the most margin for error, while retaining high bullet velocity and added bullet drop
most weapons in their effective distance it is not noticeable,
In the weapon "skill" requirement category I would rate vs as in the middle.
I believe some thing that is massively underrated by most people
is that VS has energy weapons, scythes and magriders,
this means that they have unique ascetic and sound from other factions, it is easier to recognize a friendly
therefore easier to recognize an enemy.
In a game where split second retractions mean every thing, VS has the identification advantage, it is why I initially chose VS.
It's not hard to read.
Their guns are the most straight forward. A lot of them don't have bullet drop, so they hit what you are aiming for. Instead of locking on, or laser guiding they basically fly straight, then keep flying straight until it hits something. Weapons don't get much easier to use than that. Accounting for bullet drop, weapons with extreme arcs in their flight path, weapons that need to be remote/laser guided, add complexity that requires more concentration than say, a Lancer/Vortek flying straight, fast, and hitting the point you aimed for at the moment of firing. The complexity of the other faction's weapons makes it more interesting and fun IMO, but do add a bit of situational strengths/weaknesses that you need to account for compared to the simplicity of the Vanu's weapons. It is strange though, usually alien tech are the weirdest, most gimicky weapons in most games, yet they are the simplest to use in this one.
Do you even know what a SMG damage model is?
No, but it seems you don't read.
You claim moving ADS speed makes mediocre guns great if they are VS ARs and carbines, but if they are any other gun that isn't VS exclusive it's nothing special?
Perhaps if you read your own posts you would see double standards.
No, YOU need to re-read. Never did I imply that VS weapons are overpowered, or that weapons outside of infantry automatics don't have .25 accuracy. The poster that I quoted stated that VS don't have any accuracy advantage after I asserted that they did. I brought more specific evidence forth saying that they in fact do, within the realm of their empire specific Carbines and ARs. NOWHERE in this thread did I mention ADS movement speed.
What are you talking about?
The VS have 5 carbines that shoot at or over 515m/s..The NC have 1 and the TR have 2.
VS also have the fastest bullet speed assault rifle (CME), the fastest bullet speed SMG (Sirius), equal speed sniper, equal speed max weapon....I would hardly call slow bullet speed a vanu trait.
(That should have read moving ADS CoF)
Nice try, here is the actual quote to which you were replying
Every faction has good guns and bad guns... nobody has 'notable' advantage on accuracy, rate of fire, or damage.
So you are ignoring the fact that moving ADS CoF is at the expense of stationary CoF and horizontal recoil that NC get on their equivalent weapons, you were replying to a post about overall accuracy, not one stat.
You also totally ignore the fact that this stat is usually only present on the least popular weapons, which happen to usually have mostly superior NS equivalents, with the stat. The NS-11A and C do what the VS weapons do, but better. The fact VS LMGs do not get this stat fits with the person you were replying to stating that no faction has an overall accuracy advantage, so don't you dare disregard that because it doesn't fit your narrative.
It also does not apply to the
the solstice variants and the pulsar c shoot @ 515
t5 amc shoots @ 570 cougar @520 track 5 variants @ 490
gause compact variants @ 500 razor @ 560
variant modles may need their speeds adjusted to compliment faction traits,
VS snipers suffer bullet drop,
so the cme is an outlier? ok don't care much thats why they are general traits. not looking into it. if you think its op complain.
AI mac weapons are not accurate enough to care about bullet drop, NC shotguns and rockets are not as fast, do you propose to increase them?
Slow bullet-speed is not a vs trait, as far as I understand it when a weapon has no bullet drop in ps2, hey lose 5-10% bullet speed to compensate, on their design,
If there are outliers from this, thats nice
how about the magriders main gun? it has by far worst bullet drop and the slowest speed,,,
traits are not faction wide, they are just what defines the style,
You worded your carbine bit to try to manipulate the data, so that the most numbery support for what yo had to say came forth, even by that example VS has slower weapons, the variant models for all factions have the same as their basemodels. which skews the data you used,
If you want to bring forth real Data points on weapons I would be game to listen. comparing all weapon types faction v faction as a %. otherwise what you tried to refute did not succeed,
my first post remains untouched by what you said,
Yes I do...and the lynx and torq are both glorified smgs.
And everyone knows it.
Its easy guys: heavies are the defacto reigning champion of infantry combat. The orion is hte most user-friendly of the starting weapons.
The advantage is clear. Throw in some wacky balancing of ESF weapons, PPA being slightly better than most, and the Banshee being high ROF AoE gun, and you have a clear slight advantage in firepower that, over the years, has gradually moved most of hte good population away from the NC. Add in alert winning givng cheaper vehciles and you only magnify the skill gradient between the VS, TR, and espeically, the NC.
No, no they aren't
Here is a SMG damage model:
Armistice: 125 @ 6m, 84 @ 42m
And here is the TORQ's
TORQ: 125 @ 10m, 112 @ 55m
A high RoF SMG typically drops 4 damage tiers (125 -> 112 -> 100 -> 91 -> 84), while the TORQ only drops 1, and it drops over a shorter max and min range.
Add in the TORQ's far superior; horizontal recoil, ADS accuracy, and bullet velocity, and you are talking nonsense.
Very good point. So why do carbines for tr have smg damage within close combat....thats what I mean by smg model....not the damage drop off.
Or hailstorm has 125 while eridani I has 143 bit with 50 rpm less?
Or that the vs carbines all have higher rates of fire than tr weapons...
And all this doesn't take away from the fact that the vs weapons are op.
Because having 125 damage per shot is easier to make something really high fire rate without OPing it or having to make it have horrible recoil patterns to be balanced. The Lynx/TORQ still have way above average DPS and good accuracy. VS weapons are not OP on the whole I don't think. Most have average DPS, and the ones that don't are just average weapons.
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