Why is VS Cerberus pistol so nerfed/worse compare to NC Rebel? Differences are too big!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mystogan, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. moriarrr-ceres

    Despite of that the cerberus is maybe my favourite vanu gun.Just because it look sexy. The only problem i have with it it's 8M max damage range. I don't understand why it's so ridiculously low. Since we have the underboss with far better stats they should improve this (and on all ES pistols, not only VS)
  2. z1967

    It needs a much better damage drop off range than it has now. It's not like a pistol could really become OP from only dropping 3 tiers instead of four. At that range, the Inquisitor is doing more damage. ES Heavy pistols shouldn't drop down below 143 at any damage range (exception, Emperor). That's tickle damage as far as pistols are concerned.
  3. Ohmlink

    No bullet drop is usually the reason for any Vanu weapons to be other faction weapons but have tweaks to make them less accurate or worse somehow. No matter how useless no bullet drop is on the weapon.
    • Up x 2
  4. Ballto21

    give it two more shots, 2m max damage range, and itll be fine
  5. Ronin Oni


    You sure about that?

    Anyone have current stat comparisons on that?

    I know they fixed the Spiekrs burst mode to be good, but I was in the impression it had 1-2 very minor downsides in comparisons to the Desperado for the benefit of having the alternate charge mode (which sucks... but the burst fire is great so hell with it)
  6. Ronin Oni

    They kept the velocity nerf for no bullet drop, but they did away with the damage profile (less damage over range) of no-drop a LONG time ago when they also removed no-drop from BASRs

    So apparently that damage "nerf" is the cost of it's (pathetically) higher RoF.
  7. _itg

    The Spiker is more accurate (notably a 33% better hipfire CoF, but also better ADS CoF and bloom per shot), has 2 more rounds in the mag, and retains its max damage to 10m. On top of that, it has the charge mode. It's only downsides compared to the Desperado are 4% less RoF and worse damage dropoff beyond 50m. However, the charge mode would be far better to use at that distance, so the Spiker wins the range contest, too.
  8. zombielores

    The Rebel only has 87% of the RoF of the Cerberus.
    A similar comparison would be the Zenith which has 86% (85.5%) of the GD-7F/Serpent RoF.

    The more CQC oriented one has 1 extra damage drop off tier.
    The more CQC oriented one has longer reload for same magsize.
    The NC one has more bullet velocity because of NC and the VS have less because of no drop.

    300 RPM (5 clicks per second) is achievable so it's not like the beamer or inquisitor where it's inhumanly possible to achieve while the Rebel can easily be over sampled.

    The velocity doesn't matter much since it's a pistol, you not using it for long range engagements so it's almost negligible. But the reason is because the Cerberus is considered a ''CQC'' weapon because of RoF while the Rebel is considered a CQC to Midrange (for pistols at least).

    For the extra damage drop off its not because of bullet drop no matter how much some VS want to believe, it's because of the increased RoF which deems it a more CQC weapon so it suffers the draw backs of a CQC weapon like increased damage drop off and longer reload.

    The main issue is the extra tier of damage drop off and slightly longer reload, you can have your velocity, it's a pistol so you won't even notice it. If you want to buff damage drop off the you need to lower RoF for Cerberus or increase RoF for Rebel.

    Despite the Cerberus' slight statistical drawbacks (I mean cmon you guys make it seem like the sky is falling because two of the non-default pistols are not 100% up to par. pls quit being ridiculous) it is worth mentioning that it has a inbuilt chevron sight which makes aimed firing much much more convenient compared to most other ES pistols because typically ES pistol irons are trash. In actual gameplay this makes way more of a difference than some minor dps difference at ranges where your primary concern is to land your shots on target anyway. The Cerberus comes out on top in that regard simply because it is not giving you such a hard time being accurate in the first place.
  10. ColonelChingles

    Well looking at the last 30 days of performance...

    Cerebus- 19.97
    Rebel- 17.64

    Cerebus- 3.67
    Rebel- 3.57

    I mean all things considered, the Cerebus does seem to be the better pistol of the two.

    If anything the Rebel is the one that looks like it needs buffs, not the Cerebus. Or the Cerebus needs more nerfs. One of the two. :)
  11. Mystogan

    I know that it might sound harsh and many rage tells can go on me but you have to take into consideration fact that generally VS players are better across servers and generally many VS weapons have better stats, simply because there is more skilled players in VS. Especially for example on Emerald, and generally VS players have better stats becasue that is where majority of MLG players started to play long time ago or where they migrated. So on paper they look simillar, but now slap Rebel in hands of those guys from AC and DA and then we could talk ;).

    Stats are not accurate in many cases. Best stats would (dream) would be if you'd take top 5% of players in PS2 (or 10% average ones) and let them play for month against each other, changing factions and using all the weapons. Then stats would be much more accurate what performs closer to what.

    I can only say from my personal experience that Rebel outside of those situational 8 meters will kill faster with decent aim. I sugggest trying Cerberus as secondary whole day and then on your NC alt do same with Rebel. You will notice a big difference, trust me :).
  12. ColonelChingles

    I've heard that theory, but I don't buy into it. Precisely because of the stats.

    Let me offer one more to you, for example.

    Headshot %:
    Rebel- 0.200
    Cerebus- 0.199

    So... this would suggest that both Rebel and Cerebus users are essentially equally skilled shooters. I mean we could go so far to say (if we were splitting hairs) that Rebel users are more skilled than Cerebus users, because they get a slightly higher proportion of headshots.

    I don't deny that there certainly are skilled VS players, but they don't seem to be able to carry their entire faction on their shoulders. At least not as far as the Cerebus/Rebel debate is concerned.
    • Up x 1
  13. Mystogan

    As I said, best is to try both pistols out and check. I have BR100 NC and used Rebel for quite long time and 2 VS chars 81 and 73 and used Cerberus so I can say that Cerberus outside his magic 8 meters suck compare to Rebel.

    And while iron sights of Cerberus are better I used to Rebel iron sights and had no problems aiming with it. They are worse to start- yes, but once you get used to them it doesn't really matter.

    As I suggested earlier, the following changes would fix Cerberus:

    Max damage range increaced from 8m to 10 m
    Min damage drop off increased from 112 to 125 on 50 meters.


    I would just like to have an option (viable and effective) to use VS ES pistols instead of Commie and Underboss. On NC I had Rebel and Desperado, or TR Reapeter and AMP (yes, I like it if I used it in its best range it is ton of fun) and on VS you have... well, Spiker (read- nerfed Desperado, but I played my share with Desperado so there is nothing exciting about Spiker and Cerberus which suck compare to Rebel).

    So I wish that Spiker would be more unique (like 4x burst instead of Desperado Copy) or Cerberus be slightly better compare to Rebel.
  14. asmodraxus

    Well as my main is VS I automatically assume the VS weapons are a pile of excrement (curse of the Beamer) and have virtually migrated to NS, however the spiker is the only redeeming pistol the VS have access to (and its a nerfed desperado with a useless charge up and omg no bullet drop as we all know how difficult it is to aim at less then 50m accounting for that).

    Things were somewhat better in PS1 as there was 3 main pistols

    Repeater (TR) - much the same
    Magscatter (NC) - much the same
    AMP (NS/VS) - much the same as a short range smg
    oh and the Beamer (VS) - much the same, a piece of sh... well you get the idea, however as the NS weapon was good, it was used by everyone instead of giving TR easy mode, NC medium and forgetting about the VS...

    But then seeing as this game was originally Red vs Blue and then someone insisted on the addition of Purple, its not surprising that there has been a lack of design focus for Purple.
  15. Foxirus

    Haven't you heard? No Bullet Drop is the end all Be all of traits. Gotta make any weapons that will not benefit from it suck. You know, Pistols and that OP long range killing and whatnot. :rolleyes:

    Any weapon that can't be made to suck for having no bullet drop? Well... That weapon doesn't get No bullet Drop.

    Snipers, Tank Cannon, ESF Nose Gun, Rocket Launcher, Slugs, LolPods. All of these could not be made to suck, So they had the No Bullet Drop trait removed.
  16. Moonheart

    And I do also think that no TR/NC weapon should ever get a buff, even if this is one of the weakest of all the arsenal in a given category, just because they have a faction trait, that they had tools nerfed in the past, and some things totaly unrelated to the said weapon that VS envy.

    I'm off trying to kill someone with a Cerberus at 200m, just for the fun.
  17. Jovisfulmina

    Spiker is not a nerfed Desperado, at all : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...=0.7&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
    It gets more mag size, better hipfire, better bloom per shot, at the cost of horizontal recoil.

    Beamer performance depends on how fast you click, so it's not bad for everyone. Its a rather unique sprayable pistol, for most people it doesn't have the RoF of the Spiker but it stays decent at range and can really get those headshots.

    Manticore = Magshot and is very good for 20-40 meters combat.

    Cerberus is a close range Rebel.

    Our pistol selection is quite decent in fact, but it requires more playing and less forum-complaining to see it.
    • Up x 1
  18. SpaceTimeSpace

    **** this, I just had to click backspace.
    Summary of what I needed to put down:
    1. M8Rebel 350 CERTS 250 hold over 60 range and dropping. 10 round of 290 rps.
    2. Cerebus 1000 CERTS 250 hold over 50 range and dropping 10 round, with 300 rps.
    3. Manticore 350 CERTS 15 round of what?
    Forgive me inaccuracy, blame this backspace ****** of my hand.
    NS > NC vs. TR > VS
    Yep, that the real picture from what I'm seeing.
  19. lsp1

    VS should be nerfed right out of the game. No one likes them anyway. Complaining about a pistol when literally everything else they have is op.
  20. LaughingDead

    I was wondering about this sort of issue today in fact. I was comparing the hacksaws to my scatter cannons for my max and even though it practically dropped every other stat, people said it was better dps. Devs do indeed value dps much more than handling and versatility. A shotgun in the right circumstances will still one shot a resist heavy. You'll probably see similar comparisons made between weapons, however NEVER doubt the effectiveness of a 2-3 headshot kill, being able to do it slightly faster than your opponent is the most important thing in a fight, you want to gib him faster than he can gib you, so naturally the devs value that, simple.