Why is the NS-15M not being touched in the LMG changes?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Oct 24, 2015.

  1. Takara

    Uh...your video isn't what i said I've never seen. Put them side to side doing an ADAD dance...Traveling in a straight line over 30 meters is pointless we know one will be faster. The numbers say it's so. But that isn't what happens in game. People don't runa round strafing all over. They stop ADS and fire or ADAD fire...the distance traveled in an ADAD is so small it's less than a second of travel from one of those clips. The only thing those video's show...is that .75 movement IS in fact a higher movement than .50 which was never in question.

    Show me how much more ADAD this guy gets over the other...the amount of ADAD i see in this game is so minimal. Maybe 1/10 people actually do this maybe less. Even then they still die. The base of the argument is that .75 Makes ADAD so powerful it's OP. But you can pat yourself on the back some more about your failed argument. You need more youtube vids to entertain yourself. Or maybe some more attempts at a space marine correlation?

    Second...I shoot things moving faster than that in game all periods of time. The .75 even with out shield is so slow that your adjustment to lead would be so minor you prolly wouldn't even really need to adjust due to CoF. Guy 10m away ADAD spam...never moves out of my CoF...or if he does ...due to my own reflexes I'm unable to track him...therefore his ADS speed is OP?
    Tank Dodges lock on missile....therefore tank movement OP. (same argument)
  2. Scr1nRusher

    Handwaving/discarding proof that you requested because it doesn't fit your narrative............

    0.75 ADS + HA shield is faster then 0.5x ADS + HA shield.
  3. Takara

    Because youc an make something small sound big by using %. 2 is 50% more than 1....but there is no context to how large 2 actually is. The distance traveled in a normal ADAD infantry fight between is the actual number behind that 50%. if it's only half a meter or one meter when the total for the guy without.75 is 3meters then it really isn't much of a problem.

    A car is much faster than a human being on foot. But in a one meter race a human will win :p That is the point I'm trying to make. That the metric we are claiming is OP is never really been shown to have numbers ingame. Sow it's pretty pre-emptive to declare it the villain.

    So my question is...if you remove .75 but the guns remain with in their same current game metrics or even better....due to the buffs. Would you rally to have the .75 returned after it was proven to not really change the problem you perceive ? Because all the arguments I've read thus far suggest people who hate it would never want it returned even if they were proved wrong.
  4. Takara

    Because the 'proof' isn't what was being discussed. That was a completely irrelevant comparison. I can look at the numbers and tell you that over a distance something will move faster if it has this speed over that speed. But The question is if it's even noticeable across the MINOR distances that are actually being used in game. If they all only took 3 steps...the video's would all be 1-2 seconds long :p that is the point. If Inflate it to some ridiculous distance it makes it look crazy out of control.

    I can make 1% Look like a HUGE by simply inflating the base number.
  5. Scr1nRusher

    So 0.75 ADS doesn't matter until talk about it being removed happens............


    Usually thats a sign that yes it does infact matter & people rely on it.
  6. Iridar51

    But we're not comparing humans and cars, we're comparing two players, and one is 50% faster than it deserves.

    There's nothing to prove and nothing to compare. One is X, other is 1.5X. If a guy traveled 3m with 0.5x ADS, he'd travel 4.5m with 75% ADS.

    Game metrics don't really apply. 75% ADS never was about large masses of numbers. There's not that many players who can take advantage of it.

    I know that the problem I percieve is 75% ADS. What I see in game.

    75% ADS doesn't belong on LMGs, period. It is a big heavy machine gun. If HA needs 75% ADS, he can use SMG or a shotgun.
    • Up x 3
  7. Mongychops

    What is the point of this? Are you trying to imply there is a conspiracy where DGC wants to sell lots of clones of "OP" weapons?

    There is no implication that removing 0.75x ADS weapons from the HA was the purpose of DGCs changes, you would have seen all shotguns and SMGs removed as well otherwise.

    It seems reading a few more of your posts that you want to do this because you feel the HA is overpowered. If your real problem is with the mobility of the HA and the skill-less overshield crutching, I suggest you switch targets to the overshield. It is more of an issue that apart from with resist shield, you both gain full effectiveness from the NMG/AS by activating it mid-fight (even after being surprised) and you have full mobility after your overshield is depleted.

    Why not try suggesting one of the following;
    • that if your NMG/AS is depleted, then your movement speed debuff persists for 3-5 seconds afterwards
    • that the movement shield debuff overrides the 0.75x ADS movement speed rather than multiplies
    • maybe that you can only activate your overshield while in ADS (to counteract SMG/shotgun/LMGhipfire buffs incoming).

    Any of those changes make more sense than turning a unique LMG into another boring one with a minor stat change.
  8. Scr1nRusher

    For you to understand just how many NS-15M's are out there. :p

    Dude..... how the heck have you missed this whole conversation?

    Its been about 0.75 ADS & LMG's, and how the NS-15M is not having it removed yet for some reason.
  9. Mongychops

    Which you still haven't explained why it is necessary on a 143*625 RPM weapon. The difference between the weapons classes was mostly realised in the accuracy stats (hipfire and moving ADS accuracy stats) arguing that 0.75x is out of place on LMGs is odd considering that there is only one non NS 0.75x weapon for each faction in carbines and ARs (with one exception). It is those accuracy stats that are the defining difference, since ADS movement speed is only a small part of overall weapon balance.
  10. FrozenCustard

    I'm pretty sure that the reasoning for them not removing .75 ADS from the NS-15M is because unlike the orion and betelgeuse it's not a close range LMG but is instead a versatile mid range lmg.
  11. Scr1nRusher

    As I've explained before.....

    The NS-15M should have 0.75 ADS removed(and buffed abit such as increasing its RPM to 652), so that way 0.75 ADS is no longer on the LMG weapon type.
  12. Scr1nRusher

    The SVA-88 is a mid range LMG and it had 0.75 ADS.

    Now 0.75 ADS is being removed & it got buffed to compensate.

    So that excuse doesn't fly.
    • Up x 1
  13. Mongychops

    ...you still haven't explained why this is necessary, you have only stated repeatedly and at length that the existence of such a weapon is unacceptable, but seem unable to articulate why that is. ORion & BG 750 RPM, SVA 698 RPM, NS-15M 625 RPM, this difference is enormous.

    I'm looking at a loss in weapon diversity when there is no apparent evidence that the NS-15M is used far too much by the NC and TR as the 0.75x ADS ES LMGs are for the VS, and there are plenty of nerfs possible if it does turn out necessary which are not fundamentally changing the character of the weapon.
  14. Scr1nRusher

    I actually have several times in the thread.

    1) To remove 0.75 ADS off the LMG weapon type for good

    2) Not wanting a job 3/4ths done.(3 out of the 4 0.75 ADS LMG's are getting 0.75 ADS removed).

    3) Better class balance.
  15. Mongychops

    1) Yes, that is your aim, but you don't explain why there cannot be an LMG with 0.75x ADS that is balanced, and so why the change is necessary

    2) 0.75x ADS was removed from the Lynx when it was reworked, but not only was the Jag and NS-11C left untouched, they added new ones to VS and NC. Why must changing a weapon be an absolute "job" regarding the entire class

    3) On the NC and TR already, the overwhelming majority of HA players are not using the NS-15M. If you are concerned about the over-use of the HA, perhaps it would be better to target something more intrinsic to the present implementation of the class.
  16. Scr1nRusher

    Because the LMG(as a weapon) would have to have really crappy stats.

    Its really not hard to understand, also this has nothing to do with LMG's.

    Its not about empire.

    A LMG is supposed to be firepower over duration. Slow but strong.

    Now think about the HA's role. Frontline combat/Grunt work.
  17. Jogido

    NS-15m is fine and actually performs quite well when you actually use it.

    .75 has always been a NS weapon trait and I'm sure they don't plan on removing it.
  18. Scr1nRusher

    I'm amazed your not getting this.

    EMPIRE doesn't matter.
  19. Ohmlink

    Because the Devs decided they didn't want to change the weapon. Also the community has not made 20,000 threads saying its OP or needs to be changed. In fact I believe your are the only one making threads for this particular weapon.
    • Up x 2
  20. Jogido

    you're wrong.

    I didn't say anything about empire. NS weapons are given this trait....it's something the Devs pointed out themselves way back. NS is not an empire.