Why is it that a single infantry can 'solo' a MBT in this game?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by orangejedi829, Jul 30, 2015.

  1. Thardus

    Who here actually kills every tank they go after with C4? Who here actually kills even half the tanks they go after with C4? When I'm playing Light Assault, whether drifters or standard, it's rare that I'll see a tank that I even decide is in a poor enough position that I think I have a chance of getting close enough to C4 it.
    When I do decide to go for it, I have to make sure I come at it in a way that neither the tank, or its allies will see me coming. Even if I do manage to do that, if the enemy tank sees me before I am literally on top of it, I'm dead, or at the very best, forced to retreat, as there is no way I can ever C4 a moving tank. Even if I do succeed, I'm now behind enemy lines, and am probably going to die, maybe even to the tanker who might have exited before the tank was destroyed.

    Unless a tank was in a really dumb spot (directly next to a cliff or a building or something, on the front lines) I consider successfully a tank to be a HUGE accomplishment.
    • Up x 2
  2. Crayv

    If they added a coaxial gun to MBTs, it wouldn't be long until they added an AP variant of it and then tankers would run with that and would then cry again about they don't have anything to deal with infantry.

    Don't forget that C4 used to not disappear after you die. So if you got your bricks on a tank and then died, you could blow it up right after you respawn.

    As for the whole "C4 can't damage tanks in RL why can it destroy a tank centuries in the future?" well just because it is just call C4 probably for the same reason why shipping is often just called FedEx even if you didn't shipping via

    FedEx, it's just the name that stuck because saying "remote detonated nanite generated explosive device" just doesn't roll off the tongue.

    Also in the future who is to say that we wouldn't have a radiation based grenade that would instantly kill the crew inside the tank regardless of how much armor it has. So lets make C4 not damage tanks but give LA's and Infils rad grenades.
    • Up x 1
  3. Lividicus!

    To Everyone Saying This Is a "Situation Awareness" Issue:

    C4 needs to be nerfed. PERIOD. I'd be fine with it putting your tank on fire, so you're forced to get out and potentially get shot by the Light assault. Doing this would make taking a tank down a 2 man job, which makes sense considering you're taking down a 2 man vehicle!

    You can have proximity radar and the best "situational awareness" ever and still be easily taken down by a c4 fairy. More so on the TR than with the vanguard or magrider. GOOD c4 fairies will NEVER be seen. They put on drifter jets and either bail out of a esf, or they go extremely high up on a mountain or tower and then drift over to your MBT. When in lockdown mode, you're just begging to eat 2 sticks of c4.

    So, what should the TR do? Just completely stop using lockdown like all the TR max units? That's ridiculous! Vanguards get a high damage shield that acts as an "I WIN" button in any 1v1 MBT engagements. And the VS have the afterburner that allows them to rocket to high speeds and are their weapon systems are designed for mobility. TR's best secondary is a freaking NS Halberd!!! Which is not easy to shoot moving.

    TL;DR C4 fairies have drifter jets that allow them to completely avoid detection. In addition, every time I'm in a spot longer than 1 minute in lockdown mode I have to move because I KNOW there's a c4 fairy in an esf, seconds away from bailing out and drifting above radar range to eat my Prowler!

    So let's make this BALANCED, and require 3 sticks of c4 or 2 sticks and ONE AV grenade, rocket, or any other AV weapon. 2 bricks needs to set an MBT on fire! Then they need to jump out and face the c4 fairy, either killing or being killed in the process! It will make for much more entertaining combat and tanks won't get INSTAGIBBED anymore!

    :mad: LOYALTY UNTIL DEATH ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :mad:
    • Up x 1
  4. Demigan

    Just a random quote to draw your attention.

    PS2 has many quirks, which can have some explanation. Such as specialized materials with properties that make them tough to spot, the energy shields which could also be active to shield against vision enhancements (which is why heatvision is so limited), there is an entire ECM battle going on while you are busy, and we can see that in the way infantry can hack an entire facility in mere minutes (or hours depending on the real passage of time).

    So we can assume that there's an explanation for everything. The specialized materials for instance, by placing atoms in combinations that aren't chemically possible without nano-construction you can get stuff we can only dream off. But why would nanites only be capable of constructing? We can already see how nanites can deconstruct an entire leftover chassis given time.

    So a C4 brick has only the name C4 because of popularity. In actuality it could be a nanite explosive that partially deconstructs anything in it's AOE. This is a reason why the damage falloff and range are so set and short: by keeping the nanites concentrated you can deal more damage and deconstruct more matter. And it pays off! Armor that would normally be impregnable by kinetic or chemical energy can now be taken apart the same way it was constructed!

    This is also an explanation why most explosives have such a small AOE. When you are wearing a nano-carbonfiber spider-webbed super suit the explosion wave and particles expelled won't do much damage. But a shell that partially deconstructs you while accelerating some particles through you...?

    It does still have some inconsistensies, such as infantry not being able to fall large heights, but those could have specific explanations as well. Such as hardened super-skeletons being detectable from large ranges and being lock-able by special weapons that circumvent the ECM.
  5. Demigan

    Now that's a poor argument. Because you'd be fine with something, C4 suddenly needs nerfing? In that case I would say that no tank weapon should be able to OHK infantry, because infantry can't OHK them unless with C4 and I'm not fine with that!

    As mentioned before, C4 is one of the few real weapons that infantry can effectively use against tanks. Any other weapon, such as Dumbfire rockets from Heavies, needs more than 2 players, even though it's a 2-man vehicle!
    Oh, and isn't the Harasser a 3-man vehicle? Shouldn't the Harasser be able to kill an MBT then? And the Lightning is a 1-man vehicle, so infantry should be soloing it...

    We are looking for fun and engaging balance. Removing C4 will cause the following problem: any infantry AV weapon now deals a maximum of around 1/12th damage of an entire tank, unless you hit them from behind at which you deal 1/3 to 1/4rth damage. Even when shooting from behind, the tank can always escape to safety. There is no way to actually kill it fast enough. Even with 2 players surprising it from behind it could drive off into the sunset and be (relatively) safe, especially when he starts firing back.

    Also think of the following: infantry is slow and bound by bases. This means that the tank is always the one who initiates the fight. He decides if he comes in range or not. He knows beforehand if the base he is at has enemies in it, and with one look at the map you can see what direction they are comming from. This means that the tank is the one who closes the distance in the first place, and makes a decision as to where he feels safe enough while getting enough kills.

    I'm a good C4 fairy, I'm nearly a godlike C4 fairy, with having some of the highest KPH and VKPH by being in the top 0,05% of players in both of these categories (in VKPH even in the top 0,025%)
    And I'm telling you that your statement is completely false. You do get seen. You get seen while getting there, you get seen during the last run etc. When you are successful you don't get seen by the tanker, otherwise he would have moved and killed you. But this doesn't mean the the LA is OP, this means that the only way to succeed is to be unseen by the tanker.
    So we have a kind of paradox here: You claim C4 is OP because you can place it unseen, but being unseen is also the entire requirement for being able to place it successfully.

    Also, bailing out of an ESF with C4 costs you a total of 500 nanites, if the target is moving after you bail you run a great risk of just wasting 350 nanites. The cost outweighs it's effectiveness so stop complaining.
    Also, I've never, ever been C4red by an ESF bailer. Where do people get those idea's from? I just saw someone make up another nice one as well: Lightning bailer, who uses a Lightning to get close and C4 them. Are you guys really that desperate to get it away that you have to make up such obvious fallacies?

    They could use it tactically instead of anchoring down and staying anchored come rain come shine? I've seen more than enough good Prowler users who deploy somewhere, ambush, undeploy while target hops behind cover for repairs, then moves up and maul you. Why don't they all do that? They either use it not at all or they use it in all the wrong places. Tactics seems to be a mystery for most players in the game...

    Only from specific heights in specific places, even then a good tanker can spot them and at least avoid them (hint: just press forwards and drive).
    Alternatively, and I have done this a lot myself: equip a good carbine, you see an LA making a run for you? get out, shoot them out of the sky, get in. I only use this when I run a big risk due to terrain blocking my movement, but it works like a charm.

    Eh... that's common sense man! Also, more than 1 minute in lockdown is one of the things you should not do, as that's the whole thing we've been discussing! If you leave yourself that open to attack constantly.

    Your 'balance' is not really balanced at all I'm afraid.
    • Up x 3
  6. Jubikus

    It would be interesting to find out ive seen basically every single episode of mythbusters and the **** the small amounts of C4 they use do some crazy damage but were talking a much larger amount but im not a tank expert or a C4 expert so theres only one way to find out and i doubt anyone is willing to try and blow something that expensive up. However i still like my suggestion that do to the 29th Century technology the tanks might be built for ease of nanite printing or however they make them poof out of nowhere and not on how much explosive damage it can take and the fact that they are easy to produce means they dont care if they are destroyed.
  7. lothbrook

    Because the devs are clueless about their game balance, at this point they're just focused on squeezing the last bits of cash out of the loyal idiots still willing to pay up for memberships and items before the bottom drops out.
  8. KodiakX

    Why is it a single person can man an entire tank himself instead of being a 2 man vehicle (gunner and driver) yet complains when another single player counters his tank with a (relatively) obvious (melee range basically) attack?
    • Up x 3
  9. orangejedi829

    So... you think MBTs should cost certs?
    I see.

    Actually, I'm not a 'tanker, but I almost always run AP, which is very ineffective against infantry. However, because of C4 fairies, when going into heavily populated areas, I've felt the need to start running HE to protect myself against the fairies. And once I'm running HE, I have really nothing to do but target infantry. So it's actually all the C4 fairies' fault that I ever farm infantry in a tank. =D

    Your premise is flawed. C4 fairies do not need to get anywhere close to melee range.
  10. Iridar51

    No, that is not what I think. I think you haven't played the game long enough to know what you're talking about. Good tankers rarely if ever get C4'd. Which means you aren't a good tanker and fully deserve what you get. L2P.
    • Up x 2
  11. Matt0193

    To be honest, so long as an Engineer can fully repair an MBT in the space like 5 seconds, they need to be easily killable. If you want to make tanks into real tanks, they need to suffer lasting damage. That goes for all vehicles and MAXes, endlessly repairing things means everything has to have a reasonable TTK.

    I'd rather see something like; For every 5% damage received in an MBT, Liberator or Galaxy, you permanently lose 1% of your maximum health. Lightnings would be 10% while ESFs, Valkyries, Harassers, Flashes and MAXes lose 1% health for every 15% they lose, since they're affected by small arms as well as explosives. That way you don't have an Engineer with a Rank 6 repair tool fully repairing without issue anytime you're remotely damaged. That also means you can look into improving the required TTK, as the power multiplier goes down the longer they're up due to sustained damage.

    I'd also say extend that to Infantry but for every 50%, but I think you'd kill the game if you try to kill Infantryside too much.
  12. ShineOut

    All the hours I put into my Magrider and I've still yet to see this " Situation Awareness " people keep saying regarding light assaults hovering straight above my MBT. Not that I get C4'd often, pft if at all anymore but the fact still stands.....

    Like honestly listen to my words. 1 Infantry man <-- SEE THIS [ 1 MAN ] <--- see the 1? yeah he/she ALONE should not be able to instagib an MBT. I'm not a pinata that rains certs for 1 guy that's apparently super skilled all the sudden. And then you say keep moving, well no sh.t I'm in a Magrider that's all we do is move. I expect to die if I'm to close to a populating building or rock or something trying to help my team push so i sacrifice my tank. But when I'm 100-200 meters away from howling pass and a LA can use jump jets or drifters with a jump pad to get to my ***? And don't you dare say it's hard because I do it undetected against any tank with no problem or hassle. I even sometimes /tell the people I killed, " Did you even see me coming? ". Cause I go so fast and high it's pretty funny to see how easy it was.

    And some one said proximity radar, yeah unless I'm farming infantry I'm not going to even bother. And how often to us tankers farm infantry again unless you didn't finish the tank directive?
  13. Takara

    Understand how an explosive works. It is a rapidly expanding pressure wave. C4 creates a rather powerful wave. Put it inside of something and the destruction can be amazing because it focuses more of the pressure created into a tighter area. Put it ontop of a tank and most of the pressure will be directed into open space.

    Another way of understanding this is using a gun. The amount of powder in a 9mm pistol round is not that much. Infact if you removed it and set it on fire it would basically crackly, pop, or create a good bang. (depending on how tightly packed it is) But put a piece of lead next to it and it may get blown a few feet. Now....pack that same amount of powder into a barrel of a gun and set it off. Having all the force directed down the same direction behind that bullet and the effect seems much larger.

    Mythbusters did an episode where they put bullets in a fire. Most of them would go off...and only half of them actually sent the bullet out of the casing. the other half, the brass failed and the gunpowder just went bang with out enough force to push the bullet. Same concept.
  14. Takara

    On the ground ...they need to be within arms reach. In the sky...they can throw it a few feet but it mainly goes straight down. Drifter jets can get you...but most of the time you die to C4 it isn't one of these guys waaaaaay above you. If it is....you just need to not be silly enough to get so close to tall buildings like that. A tank shouldn't be that close to a tower/biolab/base wall. If you are...it is again YOUR mistake that caused you to die.

    I can honestly tell you I've never died to a C4 fairy who was more than 10 meters away from me. I always stay at distance with my tank unless I'm willing to die. If you aren't willing to risk dying...don't get so close.

    It means...knowing your surroundings. Knowing where the enemy is concentrated and staying at range from it. You do it all the time. The fact you don't get c4ed often means you udnerstand where you are and what is around you. I drive my mag backward most of the time so I never expose my weak spot. I watch my mini-map for any red dots....and I make sure I look at the rocks and buildings around me to make sure I'm not close enough for the c4 fairies to get to me with out me seeing them.

    It isn't flawless sometimes even if you have good situational awareness and feel fairly safe, sometimes one of the ninjas just sneaks up on you. Other times you have thrown it out the window for something or another.
  15. Necron

    Tanks are cheese. All rewards and little risk. C4 fairies, even the good ones, might get one tank in four or less. The risk to them far outweighs the risk to you and they earned that reward.

    Here we go again; another tanks should be able to farm infantry without any risk from said infantry thread. It's always the same.
  16. Scr1nRusher

    no.... no they are not.
    • Up x 1
  17. Necron

    Because tankers are, bar none, the biggest cry-babies in PS2.
  18. Scr1nRusher

    That.... that would go to the infantry only players that never ever use vehicles themselves for things other then transport or Target practice.
    • Up x 2
  19. orangejedi829

    Good tankers are better at avoiding C4ers. Good C4ers are better at avoiding detection by tanks. It works both ways. And just because one learns to avoid something in-game does not mean it is balanced.
    Lol. How long is "long enough" for you?
    Any points you may have had were invalidated by these lines. Sorry.
    Well that's easy. Because the tank costs more! Not to mention that C4 is equally effective against two-man tanks.
    • Up x 1
  20. Kanil

    I completely and utterly disagree.

    I've pulled about 250 Lightnings by now, and I've been instagibbed (read: 2 bricks) by C4... ... once. I got complacent, trying to eke out a few last XP in the last 30s of an alert, I sat under a bridge and repeatedly shot an empty turret. An LA that just tried to kill me came back after his failure and tried again.

    Situational awareness is a hard counter to C4.

    As for non-instagibs, I've lost tanks to one brick of C4 an additional 5 times, making it still less dangerous than flipping my tank, or less dangerous than friendly fire... (not to mention it requires you have a teammate shoot the target tank first.)
    • Up x 1