Why I likely won't be playing this game ever again

It's not just the alert, it's not fun as what I posted just above this one. Being bunched up like sardines is incredibly boring. yeah, let's camp rooms and then run to the others while getting C4ed. Why not do that on other bases? It's the same lockdown non-sense going nowhere. Heal Max, camp as a Max, pop out with a launcher, use turrets, heal, revive, suppress fire, snipe, I rather play VR training when Bio Labs become "the" place. NC Maxs are also OP in Bio Labs because of the shields so when you keep shooting it, it does nothing. I've play NC a little bit and I just Max.

I don't play maxes, do suppression fire, fire at spawn shields or heal a camping max in a biolab. But I have a hell of a lot of fun shooting the people that do. They are happy, I'm happy. Everyone there is happy. It's why we're there. Take that away and there is less reason for many people to play the game. And when they quit they won't just quit playing the biolab. They were playing elsehwhere too. Possibly even doing something you wanted them to do. But once they quit they are gone from all.

I'd rather be camped by light assaults than A2G ESFs. Or any vehicle from over 50m. One good peek and most LAs are toast.

I don't really get this. Do you find infantry play boring in general? Actually playing the fights it's really tense and stuff happens all the time. Most bios also have the shield gen that when destroyed removes the most important strongpoint for the defenders : the SCU room, and if the SCU dies too it's GG.

It's difficult to push in bios, but it's not like nothing happens ever in them. It sometimes takes up to ten minutes to push one side from a building or from a chokepoint to spawn, but that's serious progress as the fight can die down and allow defenders to cap nearby bases, fighting in them isn't pointless, but it's much slower compared to most 4min cap filler.


Faction MAX imbalance always existed, it just comes out the most in biolabs since they're potentially fight-changing there. Currently NC has the only good faction MAX ability, however the campaign does give TR MAXes a decent enough ability that automatically reloads your weapon, too bad it's campaign specific.

That super "stalemate" is no fun. Might as well have the same fun spawn locking another faction at a base until reinforcements come from the outside having people flood out.

Always have to play infantry. Bio labs are not fun and they are sometimes "stalemates" chasing point to point. Like I said, Call of Duty has a game mode called Hardpoint and other modes where you can get that high. Sure, Bio Labs may not be the same as Watchtowers as you can get bombarded by vehicles.. it just sucks having to go through buildings to buildings and getting killed by people up on the roof. It's like trying to the The Ascent from the bottom from upper enemy infantry while you are an infantry too and the cycle repeats. I can understand that mini-game is cool, they still exist on other continents. It used to be a lot "worse" when it was 4 points?

Mmm, no.

The rest of planetside is traveling to get to a fight. Then you fight, then it ends, then you travel more. The "super stalemeate" *IS* the fight. No travel. You spawn and you're fighting. The stalemate may happen in a biolab. it may happen in and around various buildings of some minor base. It may happen in rolling hills between bases.

When it's not happening one of two things is: Someone is getting spawn camped, or someone is getting rolled. Neither is fun.

Your allusion to spawn locking is incorrect. That is not what I'm talking about. At all so don't try to paint my wishes into that corner. A spawn camp is the opposite of what I'm talking about. If such a thing happens the fight end with the attackers winning at the end of the timer. There is no fight so there cannot be a stalemate.

And this **** experience is what game changes are promoting. Promote vehicle fights with no nearby vehicle spawns? Ok, you get a <5min vehicle battle then one side doesn't have as many and voila... they are crushed and spawn camped by cheese. Defenders redeploy to flee elsewhere and the attacking force becomes unstoppable until the end of the lattice. it sucks. And it's what is being asked for when the fun stalemate bases are removed.

haha came to check on this after a week and I'm glad to see someone's still tryna explain why people weren't having fun while having fun, and the game's much better now than when people actually fought and servers weren't dead.

Exactly. And it's proven by the fact that so many people prefer to fight a balanced stalemate than participate in an alert. If the people who enjoyed those fights were a minority, the people playing the game 'for the alerts/objective' wouldn't care because there wouldn't be enough people participating in it to actually impact anything.

But those people who prefer to toss out all the fun on the server for 100 certs are a minority. And sadly, they're the ones currently favored by the updates. First they buff all the ways you can take out spawns, to the point where it's become as simple as right clicking on a map to drop nukes. So one person who's decided that his team wasn't allowed to have fun, and that they were gonna force everyone to zerg and ghostcap to alert victory can easily kill the fight. The only bases where it was harder to kill the fight was biolabs because of the base design and the fact attackers had a hardspawn. Well, guess removing the hardspawns, maintaining the massive no deploy zones that force people to walk 5mins to reach the teleporter since they can't deploy a bus next to it - oh and doubling the spawn times...I guess that was the right choice. After all, we don't want people to have fun in this game (at least not a majority of players).

All these updates have encouraged is more zerging, more spawncamping, shorter (and worse) fights - that is when a fight even occurs - because half the bases have no spawns or the spawn system doesn't let players spawn there anyways!

And people are scratching their head wondering why people aren't having fun and quitting left and right! Lmao I just don't understand....

There's also the factor of just being on these forums where people only show up to spew negative things that need looked at can just make everything look like trash.

Not saying the game is in a great place but a lot of the time balancing command and casual is hard and it seems like they are just guessing sometimes despite my like of most the controversial changes.

If you don't wanna stay to it, don't bother coming back all you'll get is people with different standards or likes trying to tell you their opinion is the perfect way of things and that you cant feel wrong about just putting a game down.

Check back every month or something, take care of yourself and most importantly remember no matter how smart or stupid you are the reason you enjoy things is valid.

Humans are weird and jumpy, especially when you question things they like, even if it's confusion and explaining their perspective which you kinda invite when making this post.

So does this mean you promise to finally Post Less often on the forums??
B/c....that would be a huge Quality of Life issue for some of us just on its own terms. I'm being serious here.

Lol yeah ofc I'll prolly stop visiting the forums completely soon. Just wanted to check up on this thread

Though tbh if someone leaving a forum is seriously gonna lead to significant quality of life improvements for you....there might be something wrong with you? LOL, but I'm happy to help I guess.

Take care of yourself dude, and remember not everyone that kills you is cheating!

Post as much as you want killer. I don’t mind one bit. o7

If you want a game that doesn't allow vehicles then you are in the wrong game so limiting everyone to your wishes is straight dumb. It's like people don't want to think about All the other possibilities and don't like instantly conforming to new situations. Bio Labs are great because you are limited as to what can kill you and what you can do but that's dumb to me. Sure, I can play Call of Duty and other games at times but it's mostly focused on mic s* talking like dunking on people at the basketball courts. I hardly play them anymore as Planetside 2 is way better.

We gotta realize, teammates need to cover for enemy armor, they need to cover against aircraft with anti-aircraft. Tell your teammates to do it or do it yourself. It's a team game. Not a TDM inside a bio lab and usually your only concern is covering what you can see which is usually a small door way and a couple other things in which urban games are great that is why they should make a City map happen somehow.

I'm not entirely sure why people don't like "zerging" but there seems to be a lot. I got a lot of negative reddit karma downvotes because of my post here. Perhaps what I like and what most people like are 2 completely different things. The real question is not about this game but what the pros and cons in real-life are from having the perspective I have and the perspective others have. There definitely is something major and without further analysis effort no one will ever know. https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/so3m7b/idea_to_reduce_zerging/hwcun9w/?context=3

I'm not trying to "brag" but from what I've seen, I do a great job at leading the faction. It has been shown to me numerous times. I've always wondered why people don't use /orders chat, /sitreps, etc. more often. I was notorious for using Planetside 1 /cont talk? so many times they kept saying I'm on again and going to put my "grocery list".

I take No pride in any of it as it's the work of all the people who listened or followed everyone else who've listened on where the responses should be. I just want to help guide the direction properly so people can know where to be as they will do what they do Anyway just not for them to do it in the Wrong base "stalemate bases". Those assets can be Extremely beneficial if they just know where to relocate.

There were times many years ago where people were constantly locked down in the middle of the map, constantly locked down in Bio Labs, constantly locked down at Tech Plants. Amp Stations used to be a problem as the gen fields were just outside the gates and repair grenades made Even a 96+(on the attack faction) 4:1 pop impossible to cap at Peris Amp Station.

Sure, if people like "stalemate fights" that's cool but having the entire faction be stuck there when we don't have enough pop to cover All the other bases is idiotic. Stalemate fights can be good to keep pop there while we take the other bases but this is only if we have enough people to stop them from pushing us or us pushing them so all that is still kept in mind. There should always be a "stalemate fight somewhere" but usually that means those 2 factions have their bases taken around the other sides of the map. Some "stalemate fights" last forever. No s* people don't want to leave it because at times I get drawn in and not realize the alert was happening and ended. We end up losing by a lot but the fight was good. Someone says something in /command voice chat or /platoon/squad that breaks the focus way before the alert ends and then we shift direction. This is why it's important for people to communicate.

I really don't want to lead all the time and I like "stalemate fights" just as long as it's not contained in the "tiny" bio lab with the way spawn locking is.

Why I don't like zergs and vehicle zergs in particular: It is not fun for everyone.

New players love it because they just join the zerg and get to always win.

It is **** for the game though. They will at one time or another find themselves on the receiving end of it. And then we get forum complaints about "fix spawn camping" and such.

Going to pause here for a sec and reflect on just that one tiny example. That's not fun. The anti-aircraft thing. It's a broken part of the mechanics of the game in need of it's own full discussion. But for now... players don't have fun doing that or if they do will quickly get bored of it.

Just keep that in mind.

It is not a hard thing to understand. Keep it simple. Zerging is not fun for all participants. Period.

For noobs to the game or those that don't fare well when the odds are even it's a lot of fun. They get to "win" (quotes).
For veterans it's boring, there's not enough stuff for you to kill.
For noobs and veterans alike it **sucks to be on the receiving end of** <---This is why you get pushback.

ding ding!

You're correct. People like different things than you. Zergs are universally reviled by all who are not in them though.

I'm not a huge fan of vehicles myself. Find it too easy and boring. But I recognize that's all some people want to do. it's important they have fun too.

But striking the "fun" balance between infantry and vehicles is tough because it is asymmetric. A tiny change in favor of vehicles has a pretty catostrophic impact on the fun of infantry players. (an ill placed hillside overlooking a capture point for example) See my philosophy at end...

Just going to remind again what post we're in. A long time veteran of the game is quitting.

Ah but why? Why is that idiotic?

They are not playing the meta. They are not leading. The game they are playing is "fight this fight" and they are having fun doing it. And if they are having lots of fun they'll support the game, buy memberships, keep playing and all that.

I get what you're saying. Yes it's frustrating as a commander to face overpop everywhere because friendlies are doing their own thing.

I've seen platoon commands get so wrapped up in this frustration that they lose sight of the game. They'll do something dumb and "grief like" to get those other players to stop doing what they are doing.

I've seen you lead both as a SL/PL and also just as a voice of reason on /RE chat. We are very like minded and I've helped you out many times (maybe we'll reach circle of trust and I'll PM you my accounts, I think you'll recognize me)

I root for you but really.... I'm retired from that. I used to SL/PL all the time. For years. I'm both bored and burned out by it now though.

I totally get why you dig that playstyle though. Just realize not everyone does. The really long term vets in particular kinda get over it after a while. An alert is fun to win but I'll take good fights instead if it comes to a choice. There will always be another alert but really good fights are special.


Final kinda philosophic point about "fun":
Players are psychologically conditioning themselves when they play a game. Not unlike a lab animal in a Skinner box. Press the right button get a reward pellet, press the wrong one, get a mild shock.

When a player has a positive outcome fun is always had.
When they have a positive outcome because they "learned" the proper action it's even more fun.
When they have a negative outcome because they made an incorrect choice it's frustrating but so long as they learn and improve they still have the fun.

What is NOT fun: having a negative outcome when the correct choice was made. or having a negative outcome when NO choice was made.

In short: If your own skill impacts results you have fun. If you die in a way you cannot control it is NOT fun.

How this plays out in planetside (examples):
Getting killed by A2G as a medic - not fun as players skill or choices have no outcome.
Getting your tank blown up by a "boom dropping" C4 fairy from a Valk. Again.. not really anything you could do as a player so it's frustrating.
Killed by a bolter who was still invisible on your screen when the network confirmed your death. Not fun. No skill came to play in the process.
A noob getting killed by a 5KDR heavy: Not fun. yes skill is involved but the gulf is so wide that there is not realistically any action the noob could take to avoid dying.

And the final example important to this topic:
The vast majority (nearly all) of engagements between vehicles an Infantry.

If the combined arms is left unchecked a large portion of the players do not have fun and they quit.

This is happening now. The balance is off. The red warning light is blinking.

You complain about dying, it happens. That's what happens when there are at at least 48+ people attacking you which is hard to see from other games. The possibilities are a lot higher than most other FPS games. I never complain about dying and just respawn. You can just take a pocket flash or fly yourself to the objective. You can even drive there then get out. When I get "tired" of constantly dying before seeing anyone first I use a cloaked flash infiltrator with a renegade or starfall on it to satisfy my frustrations. I end up with a Huge list of kills with no deaths when done right. That is my goto solution when I "keep" dying especially on uphill battles like you've said. Dying to a bolter, dying to a tank, a sniper, a heavy, etc. As a Pro yourself you should be doing the same. Find goto solutions to prevent the whole, I want to do this fight with a 1:1 KD under all conditions because I've played the game so long so I know I'm good without realizing the constant dying happens because you didn't change methods. I hate dying at times too and if I don't switch to combat-infiltrator or get into a vehicle I will quit too. It doesn't happen all the time. You can still zerg properly and make it but "footzerging" requires some sort of transport, cloak, or a spawn near cover or you run the risk of dying All the time. Being in the open subjects you to the potential of getting killed, it's a given.

The issue is people don't have a way of forcing themselves into better strategies. They keep trying to make stuff work that no longer works at the moment. It either induces boredom or frustration. I don't play the game 24/7. I alt-tab at times then come back to the game.

I think people need to take breaks. If it's not working out or is getting boring, do something else then come back. I always find it interesting to see people running around to or away from an objective. It's funny to me in a good way. The community of players is really nice and people want to play. I just think some people need guidance, not maybe people on this forum of course, but the people on the field who could fall in the same problems the veteran players have that could be intercepted before their future to prevent those issues from ever happening to them.

We should take notice about the players helping each other either by repairs, heals, revives, ammo, etc. If we just stop at times to understand what goes on in the game other than our own concerns and issues, we may see the beauty the game truly is. There are soooo many things that go on in the game far beyond Most other FPS games that it can numb us to see everything else. Seeing a few snipers grouped up behind a forcefield shield wall window, seeing people gathered together by the entrance/exit of a doorway, seeing armor attacking other armor or ramming them to prevent their teammates from being runover, seeing cloakers going slow around areas of the battlefield trying to get some kills, many other things, it's such a cool game to play and be part of.

We should also consider the lack of air and ground vehicles at times. It's not like there are vehicles and air All the time. I wish we had more air but people don't use it. I wish we can have vehicles help kill their spawn but no one is doing it. A goal next game session should be, look at how much air and ground vehicles there are on every base you play. Unless you are on the front line bases.. even those at times have No aircraft or ground vehicles happening but usually the other players are on top of that anti-vehicle/anti-aircraft solution which should be taken into consideration not just ignored and blame vehicles and air for the majority of players dying which should be considered to be untrue unless you are sorting stats based upon KDA/KDR.

Maybe if everyone can read post #34, everyone would realize "how to think". All of you have concerns and I think I've addressed them there if not then I should just, keep trying.

How to think? You just got ignored for that $ hit. I’ve ran into plenty of people trying to tell me “how to think” and they were all psychopaths. I don’t think you realize how bad that sounds.

No.

Sorry gotta stop you outright.

I do not complain about dying. Dying does not suck by itself. Dying could be with the other guy having a sliver of health after a well fought contest spanning two weapons, a knife, and two medkids. Fun **** even if you lost!

Walking back from spawn is not fun. That's a boring adventure. So there's that.

But what I really complain about (and this is important to get):

Dying when your skill does not have an impact on the outcome.

Period. That.

It's unfun. Objectively.

We need to fix the !#$ spawns.

One of the MANY situations that results in my highlight above is drastic population differences.

The percentage of total deaths that are unrelated to the players skill (aka not fun) climbs drastically with population differences.

And we need to stop making game changes that increasingly pits infantry vs vehicles. One side dies predominantly in ways where they could do little about it (again, not fun).

And Oshure has combined the above two shortcomings. A small say 55/45 difference in combined arms pop very quickly turns into one side losing most of their vehicles. Then it becomes a 60/40 (or worse) where one side has the vehicles and the other side gets that *objectively* unfun experience.

Yeah 100%. Idk how someone can say stuff like that and expect people to agree - and when he sees a majority of ppl disagree - he concludes they are all wrong except him.

If you need to tell people "how to think" so they can have fun - something's wrong lol. The game should be designed so anyone can understand the intended gameplay, and the intended gameplay should be fun.

And then the conclusions that I see like "You complain about dying" lol. Yeah, the vet with hundreds of thousands of kills and deaths that's been playing consistently for years is complaining about dying. I mean I'm pretty sure all planetside 2 vets can agree they don't play a shooter to die lolz.

It's incredible how this game treats its vets. It's a horrible experience for new players, which for a number of reasons it will never be new player friendly, and on top of that there's never going to be an influx of new players significant enough to actually impact the game in any way. So the game relies on vets and people who quit but still keep an eye on it, checking up after every update hoping the games going to be fun again. Yet it completely ignores vets, and worse, does everything to delete the gameplay they seek. It's wild how poorly they treat the only group of players keeping the game alive.

There's the handful of twisted players and wrel which seem completely disconnected from the rest of the playerbase...and the rest of players just tryna have fun somehow in a game that gets less and less enjoyable with each update.

Yep i'm going to agree with this in its entirety. Well said.

So all of you are the type that love the huge indoor-only pop dump "stalemates" that don't go anywhere.. and I'm isolated out because I choose to play the game how it should be played?

Back when they removed cont lock alerts for hives the game was dying hard. Back when they made it where you can spawn free aircraft for at least 1 hour in rotation with something else. Cont lock alerts are the reason to play this game. All of you must be in the wrong game. Perhaps Fortnite is your game.

Ok, I may have made a mistake saying "how to think" so you all can keep your sacred flawed ways of thinking. It should've been reworded but for next time. Somethings always have to go wrong first which is what I try to avoid for everyone and everything but unfortunately it has to always has to happen.

I didn't know people cared so much about playing the game "wrong". It's ok to like those kinds of fights but to draw the majority of 2 factions pop into a base that has been cut-off across many bases all the way to the end of an alert is wrong. I think this was before there was spawn intelligence where you can't just redeploy anywhere under any condition.

I mean if you all felt violated that you got killed by a "vehicle" instead of "infantry" that's your own problem.