Why does DBG allows NC's terrible low win rate?

I know this is a shotgun, but this is how the NC hard hitting guns should sound and feel


Instead they are more like this:

So, what do you want me to do? I never denied the bigger impact on missing for 600x167, but I showed how close the numbers can be.
According to some, I probably have to add a NC is just bad bad bad... disadvantage on top.

We can look at accuracy stats here. And can compare a few weapons.

.......................................average accuracy

AF-19 Mercenary............21.4% ± 5.1199%
TRAC-5..........................20.6% ± 4.9532%

NC1 Gauss Rifle............22.1% ± 4.9126%
T1 Cycler........................21% ± 4.6869%

LA1 Anchor....................23.9% ± 5.2427%
MSW-R..........................21.4% ± 5.0186%

According to this, players tend to have a higher average accuracy along with a higher tolerance, when using these three NC weapons.

The weekend update- Friday November 3rd- Sunday November 5th.

Emerald
Peak pop 1286

VS 14, TR 5, NC 5
VS 58%, TR 21%, NC 21%

Miller
Peak pop 1322

VS 6, TR 8, NC 6
VS 30%, TR 40%, NC 30%

Connery
Peak pop 1011

VS 3, TR 9, NC 7
VS 16%, TR 47%, NC 37%



Emerald seems to be the only server that still needs help with balance- as VS still has a major streak going on. The other servers show that NC can and do perform well.

I don't think everything's changed because of one weekend

The main thing Emerald NC do seem to have is enough base builders to get the required cortium in order to start an alert, if we do that well enough ahead of the others we seem to get a forth faction population boost for the following alert.

I am simply stating the theoretical TTKs are unrealistic. Almost no weapons can actually achieve theory without firing from stealth.

As for accuracy, there are a number of factors which lower the values artificially. Hit detection and excess shots fired into a corpse as it drops to the ground for example.

Additionally, the higher standard deviations means the values are more spread out than those with lower deviations. They have more users with lower and higher accuracy than the TR's weapons you've selected.

Lower rates of fire are generally not the best choices for PS2's unusual gameplay mechanics unless one really knows how to use them. That's all there is to it, high RoF guns are just easier to hit and kill with.

Do you mean in general or especially fo NC?

This affects all weapons.

More deviation, but the average accuracy is better.
Now we can dispute what´s better. Less deviation or higher accuracy.

I wrote this several times through the years. If 167 DMG is such a problem avoid them. NC is also having a variety of 143 DMG weapons.

It's really difficult to build a model to compare guns using average player accuracy stats, there are too many uncontrolled factors.

As stated, there is a greater likelihood of wasted overkill shots from higher ROF guns that artificially lowers the accuracy stat, same goes for when the target ducks behind cover etc.

You would also need to compare the accuracy of the guns from the same sample ranges, say: (15m, 30m, 60m) Are they most accurate in their most advantageous ranges for getting kills? What about close combat run-and-gunning? Players are going to use their gun in the most effective way they can while avoiding where it performs worse, which makes it an apples and oranges comparison. (Extreme example: you don't run and gun with a sniper rifle, and if you did your accuracy would generally be horribad. So most snipers don't do that and so the accuracy stat for sniper rifles stays high, while they also aren't in there capping bases either.)

Ok, so you're saying: "Just only use the 3 of NC's non-default wannabe TR guns with smaller magazines, NC is just fine..." May as well just make us a second TR-like faction and give us all good guns then.

Secondly, that suggestion just doesn't work, most players don't even read the forums, if they feel their weapons are not effective they will not have fun and just quit the game. And if a many of the new players play NC as their first character, as some have suggested, this is just another way new players have a bad first impression of the game and may not stick around.

Thirdly, why are most of NC's best guns the least "NC like", can't we make hard hitting guns good? Why is that such a problem? Why do NC guns typically have worse COF movement penalties? You already shoot slower, it's more important for you to land all your shots if you want to win, and then there is this COF handicap burden on top of that.

If you take the last 2 weeks on Miller you see a pretty even spread- VS 22, TR 23, NC 22 (VS 33%, TR 34%, NC 33%). This would leave me to believe that on Miller NC outfits are as good as the others, and that the players have adjusted to NC's weapons enough to be as competitive as the other two factions.

It really is Emerald that has the huge lean towards VS domination- and I have no idea how to fix it. NC did well compared to TR this weekend, but Vanu is just roflstomping both of the other factions at will. I have stopped playing VS for now, as it is no challenge to get a map with 60% territory and watch the other factions population just disappear to another continent.

Ah but you are forgetting something: average distance to target and the willingness to open fire.

In general, most games seem to have an average accuracy rate for their players of around 25 to 33%, and around 50% for sniper rifle like weapons. This is because in general gameplay a player can expect to achieve the kill with such accuracies. And you already see an important discrepancy: someone holding a sniper rifle is likely to have a higher accuracy rate, as misses are more punishing... Which is why the NC accuracy is higher than the other two factions.

But theres more. If you cant expect to kill your opponent because he's too close/too far, you'll try to get the right distance first before opening fire to increase your accuracy. And if you need a higher accuracy rating to ensure that kill, you'll need a more specific distance to make your weapon shine. This means more time spent seeking that distance and more time for enemies to fire first as they have less demanding weapons amd need less accuracy to secure that kill.

I think that you can Debate the issue to death (and we are doing our best), but however you look atitthe NC needs a boost. The best way is to improve weapons and vehicles that are lacking by giving them traits that actually matter. "most damage per shot" doesnt matter in this case as higher bullet damage is rarely the deciding factor. While more accuracy/bullets and less punisment for misses do matter.

You could equalize the theoretical TTK with a higher ROF, but the weapons would still suffer a higher punishment for misses. So perhaps we should look in other directions. A simple higher accuracy per damage point, much faster settling of COF, even higher damage per shot to give faster TTK potential but still at the cost of higher punishment for misses, or even special mechanics added to the ammo itself as compensation.

It´s a simple conclusion, if you think a weapon is bad use another.

At the end of the day you have to take it as it is, since 5 years now. If a player thinks he´s playing the worst fraction he can take it or leave.
And don´t expect any big changes from the developers. Now a days would it be a surprise, if they make several changes for all weapons of a certain damage model.

NC weapons are best suited for engagements at medium to long distance, ADS fire, low RoF/high DMG and with the skill to handle medium to high recoil and discipline to burst fire. In the hands of someone who takes cover when needed, takes extra time to aim, burst fires and leads far-away moving target the NC weapons are devastating.

But those are ideal conditions whereas most of the PS2 engagements are short to medium distance, hip firing, pray-and-spray. Try these simple experiments while in VR Training:

- Choose the TX1 Repeater (high ROF, low DMG) and try to kill a target at 10m spamming the trigger, hip firing and jumping frantically left and right (to simulate a typical PS2 "phone booth" fight)
Then do the same with the Beamer VS3.
Then do the same with the NC4 Mag Shot.

- Now repeat the experiment but fire at a 30-40m target while standing/crouching, trying again to fire as quickly as possible.

In the first scenario the Repeater will kill more efficiently most of the times, followed by the Beamer and the NC4 will be last.
In the second scenario the NC4 will be more effective, followed by the Beamer and the Repeater will be last.

NC weapons are not per se weaker compared to TR and VS weapons, but are weaker in the typical PS2 engagements.

Some data on this would be great. I'm especially interested where you find data on engagement ranges of various weapons.

As a follow up to that, please show more insight on the Anchor and how a 167/600 weapon is able to perform so well. So well, in fact, it is the best performing non-directive/cash swag LMG in the game.

Again, actual data. Not your speculative and personal reasons why you prefer X or Y weapon. I mean, I enjoy the A-Tross, for Pete's sake, but I'm not going to sit here and say it is the best weapon ever.

In general. Basically everything that doesn't consistently OHK is going to take longer to kill unless the target is stationary and unaware.

My point exactly. Personally I doubt the majority of players are running around with only 20-30% accuracy, even with PS2's wonky bloom mechanics.

Obviously higher accuracy is better, but having more players with higher accuracy is better still. In this particular case it's hard to say which is preferable given how close they are, in my opinion. A lot of the values overlap.

Easier said than done in the NC. And I actually prefer low RoF high damage weapons.

There is no one that collects the ranged data, and I've pointed out years ago, litterally years ago, that this kind of information os CRITICAL to balancing the weapona.

We know that a the range of a kill is registered due to the marksman medals, and that individual bullets have some kind of range measurement to both calculate how much damage degradation they experienced and how far they travel before despawning. So even individual hits could be registered.
As a Final and very important part, range to the enemies that hit and kill you while holding a weapon is extremely important as well.

This gives valuable information. A mid-range weapon that gets 40% of his hits in CQC and has a giant distance-to-target spread is more an all-purpose weapon. A CQC weapon that has a miniscule distance-to-target spread is far more limiting and far less useful overall, especially since less hits outside a specific range means any engagement outside that range is a loss for that player. By changing damage degradation values, hipfire/ADS accuracy, bloom, recoil and FSMP's you can modify a weapons effectiveness and have a much more visual cue to see if the modifications had the intended effect.

I do, GD-7F, Carnage & GR-22, the big gap is with LMGs. So, fine, give NC a 143/750 LMG and I'll just use that too.

It just doesn't help the average player using the default guns, the players I need to count on to watch my back in large battles.

There's always hope with new ownership that they will realize the past mistakes and look at declining player numbers and do something about it, so no, I reject your crap hopeless attitude. If people put time into a faction, are in an outfit and know people, they don't want to just switch to the OP faction or quit as the only options. And not sure if you noticed, but this game goes through massive changes all the time.

I feel sorry for you, Boy.
Because there's no thumbs down button to downvote me.

Agreed, I've been saying this all along. NC weapons are good, but not in most of the conditions in this game.

At range, it's much harder to get the kill, as it's easier to duck behind cover where the pursuer is too far away to finish them off. Medics are also more likely to be able to safely revive them even if you did kill them, rendering the delay to that player (which is all death really is in this game) far less than the close combat weapon that kills the enemy and then kills or prevents the medic from reviving him, forcing a trip back from the sunderer/spawn-room.

At range, there's a good chance there are also vehicles competing in that niche.

Maybe NC weapons could just use an accuracy pass, give them less punishing COF bloom (especially when moving) to make up for the fact that less bullets means greater punishment for misses. NC is Quality over Quantity.

And maybe some TR/VS bullet hose guns are too accurate at range, The Jaguar and Serpent are close range carbines but in addition to being awesome at close range, I get medium ranged kills more consistently than my medium ranged NC Bandit.

That is pretty strange, especially since the EM6, which is basically an identical 167/600 weapon (with the added benefit of rarely having to reload), is nowhere near the top of the LMG pile in terms of statistical performance.

A simply, no would have been enough.

Stop making arguments from personal preference.

Wait a moment here. The Bandit a mid range weapon? We are talking about the 632RPM carbine with 0.75x ADS movement, right? What kind of bizarro reality do you inhabit, Lamat?

As advertised on the weapon's own in-game description