Why does DBG allows NC's terrible low win rate?

New player rolls NC, has low fire-rate accuracy dependent Gauss Saw, better suited at a distance.. which is harder.
New player rolls TR, has fast fire-rate Carv, that at closer ranges has the DPS & Fire-rate to make up inaccuracy.
New player rolls VS, has moderate-fire-rate Orion, that is accurate to where it is pointed nearly, with clear optics.

Of these options, the NC newbie has a weapon tailored around experience.
One not built for the easier-to-adjust-ranges, with a low ROF, designed for Head-shots to make up for it.

That same player re-rolls as TR or VS, if they had any practice with NC weaponry basically aims like a god with TR or VS.
NC gets stomped new-player vs new-player.

It's not just that players will not likely stay NC just since they get mauled.
As that had to first start, and be kept up.
Gauss Saw, grand example, that's a New player gun that demands accuracy, fire-control, and distance.
3 things you can't expect a new player to know or manage right off the bat.
In environments against other players, new or not, with weapons Built for the general range, without such accuracy demands.
You can fire an Orion or Carv at Full-auto, and hit the target more than once, while out of ADS.
Good luck doing that with a Gauss Saw.

Everyone agrees the Gauss SAW as the starter weapon for NC heavies was a mistake but other classes have some of the best if not the best default primaries.

Mercenary is one of the best carbines in the entire game and easily the best default. Gauss rifle is amazing. Seriously underrated weapon. Close matchup with the Terran Cycler for best default AR. Depends on whether or not the player has the aim to get the most out of his NC1, and NC start with a bolt rifle for their infiltrators while the other 2 start with semi autos.

The SAW is an issue, sure, but I don't think that's what accounts for the bad NC win rates. Especially since the GD 22S is just 325 certs to unlock.

Trac-5. TR. That's a brutal little carbine.

Gauss Rifle is nice. I'll admit to that.

NC's bolt is a blessing & curse a bit.
While it's a free bolter, you also then have people with a single shot who haven't gotten a taste of how it handles.
Semi-Autos are more forgiving for misses, and easily blend people in from the other semi-auto to full-auto weapons to Sniper rifles.
Full Bolt-actions however... sheer cliff of difference, one without the pull-bolt as well.
So scope sway, single-shot, no room for error.
Great but also a poor choice for rookies.

Given how everyone says the heavy is the most played class, and how only NC can spend 325 certs to unlock a weapon that handles better, while TR & VS can spend 325 certs on class abilities & not on a replacement LMG...
I'd say Screwed is a great way to put it.

Should we then talk about the NC max unit?
Starter is a Scattergun & Falcon.
One of the worst shotguns for the max, is the starter.
TR & VS, have a moderate range AI weapon, both with near instant reloads.
NC has a short-range 6-12 shot at best Shotgun with RNG, with the longest reload.

Heavy LMG starter is set for needed accuracy to use, and for longer-than-average ranges.
Max starter is geared for RNG close-range.
NC Heavy weapon is a tri-shot RNG shotgun.
NC Infil's starter is a Long-range Bolt action.
None of these use even the same skill set as TR or VS's own set for starter gear.

Then we move onto vehicle weapons.
Slowest Reload, Single Shot Tank cannon, with the tank's capabilities needing the shield.
Against an Artillery piece, and a curved hover tank.

Reaver is a massive target.
Hardest to miss.


Now for some comedy bits:

NC is a bright *** Blue & Yellow, standing out in every possible terrain type.
NC Reaver is the literal loudest.
NC weapons fire is also the loudest. (and oddly uses yellow not blue tracers, which vanish easily)
Vanguard has a massive side.
NC ES vehicle weapons, including for aircraft are usually RNG close-range weapons.
All NC AI Max weapons are shotguns capping at 12 shots a magazine, needing 150 cert per arm for slugs.. which is called required.
All NC AI Max weapons but the Mattlock is usually forgotten to exist.
NC Gauss Saw comically has a Full-auto & 100 round magazine, that no sane vet would easily deplete, with the longest reload.
NC Infil is incredibly brightly colored for an Infiltrator.
NC ES Launcher is a guided Missile that can't kill infantry, and can be shot down by a pistol (I've done it a few times for fun)
NC Maxes had to learn to reload prior to activating their ability to reload, while being unable to fire either way.
An NC AI Max is required to be in C-4 Range to hit a target.
The NC Harasser ES weapon, is a close-range explosive weapon that can't kill infantry worth a ****. (TR's can kill both easily)
NC's Carver loses only to the ungodly loud TR Chainblade for volume of sound.
NC's stock pistol is near identical to the Gauss Saw beyond the COF issues.
NC's Directive LMG the Godsaw, has an AV mode to reduce damage to infantry by 50% to damage armor, with 10 less bullets.
NC's Directive Shotgun has a shotgun attached. (what the ****)


I say Comedy, as jesus...
They aren't arguments by themselves. By damn do they pile up.

I played NC as my first character because everyone said it was hard mode. I soon left because of the complete lack of teamwork, but recently returned because the other factions are easy mode. I'd like more vets to step up and play NC if they really think they're the ****.

As long as Oracle of Death was alive, several people have used it to prove that the NS statistics were similar on each faction.

But if you really want, you can use Dasanfall. Far less easy to compare and many NS weapons are lobbed together for all factions, but it's possible for some weapons:
Lightning HEAT:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3158
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3157
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3156

Default weapon the Lightning Viper:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3100
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3102
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/3101

Interesting here is that with the default Lightning weapon, the supposedly most newb-filled faction scores better than the other two. Considering it's the default weapon and that the players on the NC are supposedly worse off due to a higher amount of newbs, they would have to score less with it. They don't. So it clearly can't be. But if you still don't believe it:

Default shotgun:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7441
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/128
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/39000

low-tier bolt-action:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/87
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/26000
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/25000

Note that some stats will be different. In this case the NC bolt-action is the default for them but not the other factions and has lower stats because it's used more often before experience is gained. To prove this we put it against the default of the TR:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/88
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/24000
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/89

What's interesting here is that the NC pulls way more ahead with the stats on the semi-auto rifle, than the TR and VS do in the bolt-action section. Do this for all sniper rifles, all shotguns, all Lightning weapons and you will see how "inferior" the NC actually are.
What's even more interesting: This is the only time we see that inexperience has an effect on the statistics. The default weapons that are used by the newbs have a very noticeable difference in stats compared to the non-default, showing more knowledge and skill has been acquired by the time newer weapons are bought. All this does is prove even more that the NC skill is in no way lower than that of the other two factions and they aren't more populated by newbs.

Read it, there's the excuse: NC has the skill to equal the other two factions as proven by their NS weapon capabilities, so the only logical conclusion is that the NC ES armory is inferior.

Yeah you make a good point about the reaver, which is now more important than ever for maintaining air superiority of course. And air superiority matters a lot when it comes to capturing bases (sundies/galaxies not dying, stopping armor columns, etc) and winning alerts, especially on Indar and Esamir.

I don't fly a whole lot, but Reaver is definitely the worst one IMO unless you are just farming infantry with the LOLshotgun. The maneuverability and hitbox are just too big of a disadvantage. Having the strongest rotary only really helps if you manage to land similar hits to your opponent, which is unlikely given the size of the hitbox. Whether I'm playing NC or playing against NC they almost always have the least aircraft of any faction (another reason people like fighting against them) too

I actually agree the ES weapons on NC are generally inferior (with some exceptions of course). I still think there's more to the disparity in alert wins than just weapon stats though. When you see VS win a Hossin alert by a huge margin with 25% pop against NC's 35%, there has to be more to that than just the weapons. NC weapons may not be great but they aren't THAT bad.

Having better platoon/squad and perhaps most importantly faction cohesion and strategy plays a pretty big role in winning alerts too, and with recent dwindling server populations it's easier than ever for a couple good outfits/platoons to make a big difference in an alert. HIVES/cortium can play a big factor in alerts too, which often experience very little or no combat at all, meaning they are contributing to alert wins without really bringing weapon balance into the equation at all.

Well consider this;

NC's heavy starter gear isn't set-up to allow them to easily or properly engage opponents, anywhere near :

• NC AI Maxes
• NC Heavy Weapon Users
• Point Rooms

So if they are a Heavy, they pretty much have a grand spot where even with practice, are outside of the range they need.
And outside the range, these allies can support.

NC's starter maxes, and AI maxes in general can't operate outdoors much if at all.
So, NC lacks the force to push in, since those maxes not only can easily hit allies but can't even begin suppressing the enemy on the way in - Less tactical capabilities.
You also have less motivation you can exploit as a leader, to get people into NC maxes.

The NC heavy weapon... is not a support weapon like the Minigun or Lasher.
It can't support from any distance, and it's the worst aspect of NC's max units.
So there's no supporting fire from that.
As well, it can't be used defensively outside of doorways or similar Close-range choke points.
It has no suppression factor.


So tactically, NC has little to zero suppression capabilities, weapons that do not function well together, and fight against weapons capable of it all, with a lot more ease of use.

It's easier to coordinate a squad of TR, or VS to hold a point, without it needing to be a indoor room with small doors for Maxes.
Max units are available for all terrain, all fights, all situations.
Heavy Weapons support allies, and aren't near identical to other infantry weapons nor having the same flaws entirely as the Max's larger variant.
And for working for less experienced members \ users \ players, as TR or VS, you know they have the gear by default to be useful in the smaller most common environments that you need to hold.
Without being useless the moment they leave the indoors.

NC Maxes need the right situation for any use.
NC Heavies with Heavy Weapons, need to be aggressive or find a favorable position easily done by any shotgun.
NC Starters, have high-skill requirement weapons, that aren't suited at all to either support the Maxes & Heavy weapons, or to the very important smaller-distances around points, to point rooms.

From a tactical stand-point, NC is barely suited to the needs of the battlefield. Let alone an adaptive battlefield.
Requiring the right conditions to even get half their firepower working, which cripples the other half.
This means, NC is at the mercy of the battlefield for combat effectiveness.

TR & VS is well suited to the needs of an adaptive battlefield.
That means, they can easily adapt to every possible fight, every battle, every environment.

So, yeah that makes it a lot simpler to just coordinate VS & TR over NC.
As you don't have half your available forces be crippled if the other half is at their average or best.

NC is the strongest faction in the game in my opinion, the anchor and godsaw are absolutely disgusting, the guass rifle and carnage are amazing assault rifles, they have the strongest 1v1 tank in the game, they have the best maxs, they even are the only faction to start with a default bolt sniper. The guns are just harder to use, take the most common skill level player and put them on tr vs, they will perform better since there is more room for error with the higher firerates . There is a reason that nc was banned in the last community smash event, cause they are the stronger faction generally when 2 equal teams are pitted against each other.

Well fair enough, look like NC failure isn't caused by noobs.

LordKrelas's point of view seems to be much closer to the real explanation of why NC are that bad.
Do you think changing NC MAX / vehicle shotgun for a more versatile weapon will significantly improve their win rate ?
Same question if gauss saw is replaced as a default weapon by EM6 / anchor / GD-22S

I can confirm, that after buying the GD-22S, that i'm never going back to the saw.
I did very well with it, it's a beast at medium to long range, but if somebody came close, you're death wich was frustrating.
GD-22S is just better overall. Reloads fast since i got a compulsive reload disorder <.<, easier to use wich makes it equally effective at range as the saw, better in close and medium range. Best 325 certs i spend on heavy, in comparison with that ****** ES AA launcher wich got nerfed 2days later <.<

In relation to the alerts, when i still played vanu and nc, i was lv 26 on my vanu and already won 4-5 alerts. I had decals, cosmetics for my sundy etc. Now i only play NC and i'm lv 28, 0 wins.
Do the statistics also keep in mind the difference between an alert win that you started and one in wich you stopped the other factions?

You mean orchestrated music?

(yes, as a TR, I am triggered when called a communist)

WERL.

ROFL.

Maybe it's the lack of doctorine on NC.

(Sorry HAXTIME, but here i got triggering again)

TR is soviet russia. High rof cqc weapons with large mags, it's all dakka. Gal drop em on point, you close the distance instantly and let the ROF go to work. Just keep em coming, the red tide sweeps on point.
Their tanks keep pelting wich sustained fire, screen shake all around, limiting ADS fire.

VS is more balanced, they can still rely on good rof but smaller mags limit this effectivness, so they offset it by teamwork and class choice.
Their standard lmg/carbine is still well suited to cqc but not limited to it.
The maggies can easily fire inside bases due to easy hill climbing, combined with alot of infiltrators and resist heavies and the general ability to work together. With teamwork, i mean reviving and dropping ammo.
When i was VS, i got rezzed 2-3x as much as on NC and ammo was evrywhere.

Then we have NC...

The guys that drift a lighthing over a friendly battle line, killing dozens in friendly fire.
Low ROF weapons, so we don't really want to close the range. We want to stay at medium range wich limits the abilty to take a point.
Unless we roll shotguns, wich limits us in distance. But shotguns aren't solely ES to us, except for the jackhammer.
Class choice is random, there is no abundance of one class.
Teamwork is almost non existant. I see friendly medics running over my body wich is in a safe place to rez.
75% of the time, if i ask for ammo, i just get a dull stare and they run away.
And don't even start on running infront of teammates firing a weapon.

That's pretty much how i experience it.

It depends on the server.

Play on Miller and NC are the strongest faction.

i think its a bad mix of everything you've talked about here,
yes it is a cool faction that attracts new players, mix that with high skill floor weapons and you have a terrible mix,
throw in the crappy nerfed shotguns on everything,
the slow moving MBT which was already the poorest preforming MBT before they decided to nerf the only thing it had (the shield)
toss in the bright colours and yep, you have all of the ingredients for the farmed faction.

Wow that's an awesome breakdown of the stats. I was going to look that up myself (due to curiosity) but you saved me the trouble!

Same here. Started NC but moved on to TR once our NC real life friends outfit fell apart and there was no decent replacement on NC at the time.

I still play NC every now and then. I played NC a few days back when they were underpopped, most likely during the same time Lamat posted some responses back. Love the weapons, hate the teammates.

Other than random *** teamkill memes, my main problem with NC is they don't know when to call it a fight. They stay in hopeless fights for too long and large populations loiter in fights that were already won long ago to kill one guy while there are multiple other bases requiring reinforcements.

On the weapons side I find it interesting how if you ask a new/bad aim player which faction has the best weapons they'll say TR (or sometimes VS) but ask a vet and they'll say NC. Even more interesting that both are correct. If you aim for center mass and hold down the trigger then 40 round magazines and a high rate of fire will suit you better but if you aim for the head, burst your shots, compensate for recoil and reload often- NC weapons are golden.

This doesnt always tell the full story....

https://imgur.com/a/mqK9G