Why do you main Heavy Assault?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by PreZiDenT, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. Sazukata

    Not sure what you mean here. You seem to be saying that other classes don't get as much complaint?

    You're part of the "it's fine because it's doing its job" crowd, a notion that I disagree with. PS2 is working to dismantle the "food chain" meta in which roles that are strictly better in combat achieve superiority among themselves so that lesser roles can operate safely (example being pre-CAI vehicle play). The same needs to be done with infantry play; because you're either a HA or you're at a disadvantage. HAs do not need other classes to thrive, but those other classes need allied HA to deal with the enemy ones. This is a bad system if we want a balanced game that doesn't center around one class with everyone else only being there to support it.

    The HA is not fine in my opinion, and I will link you some of my thoughts on the subject if you want to justify your stance beyond "it's fine because (vague preconceived notions)".
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...d-a-massive-nerf-already.246894/#post-3475234 (That was you in this one, never got a proper reply)
    • Up x 2
  2. JibbaJabba

    Like I said. It's not that I don't want to explain. It's that I don't want to explain *again*. I've been in all 3 of those thread I believe. I read the counter arguments and remain unconvinced.

    I see holes in the logic you just posted for example (PS2 is working to dismantle the .... says who? ... HA do not need other classes but those other class... Yeah, no.) The **** is tiresome.

    If the whiners nerf the HA into oblivion then they'll just turn their attention on the next thing that they struggle with. This game will end someday with the last two people on the server pointing fingers at each other saying "you're OP, no You're OP!". Everyone else will have left because they were enjoying the game then someone done f cuked it up because they had an opinion on what someone else should be doing.

    I think the HA is just fine as it is.
    • Up x 2
  3. Sazukata

    Says the dev team through their recent actions. They seem to have a new vision for making the game more balanced and diverse rather than the high power ceiling "war isn't fair" approach.

    Nevermind the semantics. Do you agree that it's a good direction?

    Prove it.

    Everyone who isn't an HA, needs an ally HA to engage the enemy HA on the same level. While the same could said about LAs fighting over rooftop dominance... That's not the same, as owning the high ground is a player created positional advantage, not an straight up mechanical advantage like more HP. One involves reading the situation and engaging carefully, the other requires pressing F to die slower.

    And before you say it; flanking is not an inherent weakness, as the HA is actually more resistant to it due to having a reactionary HP boost. "Get headshots" is also not a valid answer for the same reason.

    This is extreme speculation/creating a false narrative to try and invalidate a singular idea, also known as a slippery slope fallacy.

    I want the HA to be something other than a numerically superior all-purpose slayer, not "nerfed into oblivion".
    If the HA's base movement speed is reduced to 75% at all times in addition to changing the overshield into something other than an instant gunfight advantage, I'll shut up about it.
  4. Lamat

    What if there was a special NS SMG that fired charged rounds that penetrated the HA shield? Lower DPS than other SMGs but with this one role.
  5. TR5L4Y3R

    yupp let´s spend a 1000 certs on a super specific weapon ... yea no ... that´s a rich get richer weapon than helping any noviceplayer at all ...
    inbefore archer and being a pure engineerweapon .. that one got changed to be used for greater variety of targets than just maxes and it still does decent at killing maxes and infantry ...
  6. JibbaJabba

    No. It's hyperbole used for illustrative rather than deceptive purposes. You got the point, don't act obtuse.

    You mean prove it again. No.

    If I haven't done it myself, someone else has. Ad nauseam. This particular nerf has been discussed since before release. The solid points have been made and acted on. The weaker ones zombie on in threads like this.

    If you're looking to understand the other viewpoint, you need only search previous threads.

    This (somewhat non) response may be aggravating, but it's less aggravating than having to repeat yourself dozens of times then only to be asked to explain it yet again. Sorry, not sorry. :(
  7. TooFewSecrets

    Sorry, this isn't how debates work.

    You can't just say "this (being "people asking for an HA nerf will ask for nerfs to other classes after it happens") has been proven time and time again" without an actual citation (link) of that happening.

    Maybe if people are still conplaining about about the fact that a single class is responsible for killing infantry, vehicles, and air, at short and medium ranges, while everyone else is delegated to supporting that one class, there might actually still be a problem?
    • Up x 2
  8. Sazukata

    In 5th Edition DnD, there is the Fighter class.

    The Fighter is, as the name suggests, the best at fighting. Working as intended. The downside is that it has no skills or abilities that don't pertain to battle.

    Now, imagine if you played a game of DnD that was only PvP fighting. No story, no adventure. If that was the case, why would you have anything other than Fighters, a Cleric to keep them going, and a few others to cover some bases? Sure the other classes can still dish out some hurt, but not being a Fighter puts you at a disadvantage.

    This is PS2's infantry play right now. The most important activity of the game is fighting over control points, and one class is the best at it without any notable downsides i.e. still doing just fine outside of that role (it's also the best AV + AA class to top it off, wtf?).

    The HA needs a weakness outside of CQC brawling so that it isn't the previous "AP or go home" kind of situation. Such as lower movement speed, so they are easier to flank or out-position in more open environments. (Seriously, it's not even a "heavy" assault) Just about every game with a tanky class is slow, has more radar presence, a larger hitbox, weak weapons with high up-time, etc.

    • Up x 3
  9. JibbaJabba

    That seems to be how it's working here. :)

    You seem to be under the illusion that I'm *really* debating this. I'm not. I debated it in the past and don't have a great desire to do so again. We're stretching the limits of my interest here. If you're interested in my views, best keep it constructive and low effort. If you just want to have debate club, I'm not your guy (on this topic).

    You're placing a substantial burden of proof on people to prove to you what they already know. Frankly it's just not worth the effort. If you want an actual citation (link) then go fish.

    Dig up some air threads. Watch that whole string of nerf and counter nerf play out. Try the same with armor. See any recent threads on nerfing the crap out of the liberator? Few if any I would guess. The lib got nerfed into oblivion a long time back. Now it's calls to nerf the A2G, or nerf ESFs in some way.

    It's all around you. If you don't see it, I'm not going to take the effort to dig it up and show it to you.

    If that means you are going to spike the football and say you won the debate, so be it. You didn't though. :)
  10. Sazukata

    No I didn't get the point. The premise you're conjuring is that there's no point in rebalancing because it'll just spiral into nerfing everything else. That's a slippery slope and a defeatist approach.

    You have no purpose in replying to me then. Why have you done so if you weren't intent on discussing it?

    If you're not going to properly discuss this and instead dance around points while cherrypicking lines to dump condescending disinterest on, your words hold no weight.

    A debate isn't a contest of how stubborn you can be, it's trying to reach an understanding through intellectual communication. I now know that this is not your intention, so I'll add you to the "don't feed the ego" list along with DeadlyOmen. Can't say I didn't try.
    • Up x 1
  11. OneShadowWarrior

    Heavy Assault used to be called Reinforced Armor on the original Planetside and is by far the most popular suit by the vast majority of players, because of the versatility and heavy punch.

    The shield was overkill and originally was a implant called personnel shield, Planetside 2 took it into a different direction.

    They should give the class more versatility and allow you to select whatever weapons you want into both slots, like double decimators or a LMG/Shotgun, LMG/Submachinegun, Double LMGS, the combos are limitless.

    Everyone wants the Universal Soldier, embrace it.
  12. TooFewSecrets

    You moved slow as hell all the time, too.
    • Up x 1
  13. Rydenan

    If Heavy Assault really is so balanced against the other classes, then why do "leetfits" like Recursion consist almost entirely of players who play HA exclusively?

    Isn't It a little odd that they all choose to play that class, all the time?
  14. TR5L4Y3R

    HA aside from surviveability has basicaly default variety being able to adapt more quickly were other classes may have to change loadouts .. a max is most effective at dualvielding and has a set for each role but has to choose ...
    A engineer often sacrefices ai capability when choosing AV weaponry with the avturret and archer ..

    A LA though having a AV weapon that weapon is rather good at finishing off targets damaged by c4 ...

    Medics and infil generaly lack any sort of av capability ..
    Medic c4 is rather a ai/antimaxtool

    so while poeple may critisize the HA for its surviveability
    i say that the other classes also lack insentive to play them on their own

    for instance medic could have a grenadelauncher as primary

    infiltrators could have access to av grenades ..

    Engineers recently got repairstickies and LA's their ambusherjets ... it matters that each class is intresting to play ... not just powerfull ...
  15. Ryo313

    It still seems ppl want to go on a rampage with a SUPPORT class and deal with everything they encounter... that's simply not possible and never will be.

    i guess it's time to talk about classes. for some reason it seems no one of those "anti HA " ppl here don't understand the game at all

    here is a Link . just click on the Class and READ it's description: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Classes

    and for those who are too lazy to even read:

    Infiltrator: Anti-Infantry and Spy unit: Can kill from the furthest distance of all infantry units. Can set up traps (mines).
    great for spoting enemies. Can Infiltrate enemy bases and hack terminals to prevent the enemy to spawn vehicles.

    Light Assault: Combat /AV Class: While a LA doesn't have the 1v1 survivability a HA has it makes up for it with it's speed and agility. Can jump over walls and get into a base via alternate routes no other class can use.
    best at flanking others from buildings, rocks or trees. Can throw flash or smoke grenades into buildings to disrupt the enemy and clear the room.

    Combat Medic: Support Class: Makes sure his teammates stay alive and revives them as well, but is also capable to defent itself and healing himself gives a Combat Medic an advantage in 1v1 situations.

    Engineer: Support/AV Class: Great for defending with his turrets and supports his teammates with ammonition.
    Can also repair Vehicles. Uses AV mines to block certain paths for enemies or prevents them to spawn a vehicle.

    Heavy Assault: Combat/AV Class: Brute Frontline Soldier. While not as mobile and agile as a LA it has a great survivability due it's overshield but while useing it the speed is reduced by 50%. Can deal with Ground or Air Vehicles as well.

    and before you cry "but medkits makes Medics useless" or anything like that... no it doesn't and a good squad makes use of ALL infantry classes. there is no such thing as "this implant makes this class obsolete".

    Each class is working as intended and has their use on the battlefield. this isn't your average Arena Shooter where it doesn't matter what you play.. it's a teambased game and assuming HA can do everything by it's own is just ridiculous nor is everyone build around to support only HAs. each class goes hand in hand and needs the other classes in order do succed in battle.
    and before you complain... yes i know the side i linked isn't that updated but still applies to the game when it comes to the classes.
    • Up x 2
  16. Scatterblak

    *Never* play HA. Boring class, no challenge, no interest. It's a snoozer.
  17. adamts01

    I really don't understand people like you. You waste an absurd amount of time talking about how you don't want to waste time talking about something..... It's just bizarre to me.

    Now this is a solid response as why to play heavy. Someone has to do the front line work by taking and defending the point. Your problem is that you have a very limited view of what "support" can mean. What would make this game better is if engineers "supported" HAs by taking out a tank or aircraft, so HAs could go about killing infantry. It would be great if we had better base designs so that LAs could "support" HAs by controlling the high ground, allowing HAs to push up. No one wants to play doctor in PS2, which is why we have combat medics with assault rifles, shoot first and play doctor as the need arises. Having HAs be the premier class for killing everything while Engineers drop ammo packs and watch HAs do the work is just lame.
    • Up x 3
  18. DarkStarAnubis

    An HA is supposed to engage in a 1vs1, dead-on, direct fight.
    Exactly like an engineer is supposed to repair Maxes, vehicles, etc and resupply others (and fight as well)
    Exactly like a medic is supposed to heal others (and fight as well)
    Exactly like an LA is supposed to flank or gain high ground to fight.
    Exactly like an Infiltrator is supposed to engage at distance or very close (stalking).

    Every fighting class (HA, LA, Infiltrator) will most likely win if able to engage on its terms.

    Support classes may win if engaging with surprise on their side.

    What do you expect, a Stalker equipped with a sidearm to win 1vs1/direct against an HA with max nano, overshield and a 100 rounds LMG?

    Side note: 99.9% of those discussions would disappear by allowing a class-less model with a basic choice (backpack with repair/heal/cloak/shield/fly) + a weight based inventory to load up with everything you like to have, ammo and armor part of that weight.

    So an HA would be a slow moving behemoth if loaded for bears (LMG, Rocket Launcher,...)
  19. TooFewSecrets

    Infiltrator: kill one guy every five seconds if you're a really good shot, run around with crappy weapons and less total HP at close range if you're bored.
    LA: can't effectively use his jetpack in a lot of cases, because the bad CoF while flying makes engagements nearly impossible to win. Catlike 5 and walljumping can let every class reach the areas only meant for LA, too. Can drop C4 to kill a tank and cost themselves 150 nanites. Flashbangs are hilariously weak compared to the Heavy's mouse shutdown grenades.
    Medic: Tosses rez grenades constantly, heals but everyone has 4x medkits or Regen implant, so that's pointless. Only really need two per fight, max.
    Engineer: Keeps a Max on a leash or sets up defenses, hands out ammo. No point in having more than one, except for vehicles. AV mines are pointless because 100% of tankers use EOD HUD.
    HA: Kills vehicles for no nanite cost at longer ranges than any other class, kills air unlike any other class, also no nanite cost, can hold points almost as well as an AI turret while mobile and with no setup time, and can mow down infantry up to medium range reliably at any time. Oh, and 450 free extra HP. Is slowed down by 35% while the extra HP is active, but has no passive downsides. ~90% of each fight.

    HA CAN do everything on its own. Overshield and 4x meds means Medics are redundant, 250+ ammo means Engineers aren't likely to matter, Catlike 5 means positional advantages of the LA are shot (and C4 fairies are way less reliable than firing lines of RLs anyway), and Infiltrators are a fringe unit anyway.

    So much for class diversity.

    Might not be optimal to run all HA, but it's the only 100% class comp where you don't get dunked on, as opposed to a squad of fragile sneakers, unsupported jetpackers, 250 HP zombies getting farmed repeatedly, or soldiers who can't push at all.

    Give them 750 HP and 500 Shields like old Nanoweave, but remove Medkits and Regeneration from the class entirely - now they depend on Medics.

    Give them only two reserve mags total - now they need Engineers.

    Remove Catlike and give a permanant 20% movement speed reduction - now they need LAs to clear the way.

    Hell, make RLs a Utility or Tool slot for Engineers, and give Heavies the MANA turrets instead - now Heavies can REALLY lock a point down, while Engineers are actually the explosive experts like they're described as.

    But you want to keep your master-of-all class, so you don't need to ever be forced to swap to something else, don't you? You wouldn't abide by any of these nerfs.
    • Up x 1
  20. DarkStarAnubis

    Ammo Printer and Health Regen implants (available to ALL classes) make already engineers and medics far less valuable.
    • Up x 1