Why do maxes "ruin fights"?

Discussion in 'MAX' started by xboxerdude, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Lurking_Horror

    This is not a game that is balanced for 1 on 1 fights. Otherwise, LAs would need a pretty harsh nerf, because we absolutely MURDER maxes. Always ? Of course not, but it works often enough so that generally, when I hear an enemy Max, I light my jets and rush to meet him.

    Sure, if you are facing 5 to 10 of them, it gets more difficult. You surely won't survive, and the dead ones will probably get revived. However, please tell me what class or even mix of classes you can face 5 to 10 of, and not be in serious trouble.

    And if you really want to talk balance, if you bring a numerically balanced team of mixed classes you should also have no problem facing maxes. In the many cases where this fails it has less to do with maxes being OPed, but more with failure to put up a coordinated response. Because they definitly bothered to bring a coordinated attack (no matter how easy or cheesy you might think it is), and you simply can't expect to counter that with the usual 'everybody lonewolf rush them heads on and shoot them till their dead' tactic most platoons seem to operate with.

    Well, an interesting opinion you have there, but it's just not true. I personally enjoy rushing into maxes, blowing up as many of them as I can get, over and over and over and over again, until I run out of c4 or out of maxes to asplode, even when sometimes I get killed more than I kill. Sometimes, I think it's actually better to be able to come back for another round than risk running out of enemies prematurely. And I know some heavies that I never see happier than when they get a chance to spam AV grenades into a cap point room full with enemy maxes. There are probably a lot more who like the callange, so 'NO ONE WANTS TO' is just false.

    And if you really were one of those players who can't handle losing well, I'm sorry, but then you'd really not be worth changing the game for, because you'd just find a new thing to blame your losses on anyway. It's really not worth dumbing down a good game for that.
    And even though I admit that a bit of ******** and complaining and rationalizing and even whining might even be healthy from time to time, I suggest you'd rather start trying to get to terms with losing anyway. You need to able to enjoy dieing too, because getting killed and blown up in exciting and totally unexpected ways is roughly half of what this game is about, and if you cannot enjoy that, you'll never really be happy with the game either.
    • Up x 2
  2. ShotgunGuru

    I enjoy having maxes in the game since they are just so satisfying to kill.:D
    • Up x 3
  3. UberBonisseur

    I mean, in PS1 you had the outdoor combat that was a back-and-forth, and base fighting that was the meatgrinder.

    Base fights varied between decent and terribadawful. But unlike PS2, you could actually break the stalemate (NTU, ANTs...)
  4. Xocolatl

    MAX ruins fight because each empire's MAX is too unique, and each one is too versatile. Hence, people never learn how to fight them properly. They're much tougher than infantries and will probably take you out 1v1 (unless you are equipped to kill them). But against some strategies, they still go down all the same.
  5. SinerAthin

    MAXes add a level of strategy and variety to the game, which is good.

    I believe the people who complain the most about MAXes are the solo players who believe the game should be balanced around 1vs1, ignoring the fact that the premise of this game is a super-massive planetary war.

    The people who look at the small picture, not the big, measure their performance and ego from their KDR etc.
  6. Posse

    MAXes are not balanced in any size of fight, lol.
  7. EvilKoala

    Too unique to learn to fight them properly? You mean the effectiveness of "conc gren + deci + lmg to the face" or "C4, lulz" depends on the faction and MAX loadout somehow?
  8. WaaWaa

    LOL Xbox. Touché!

    Being somewhat of a MAX connoisseur, my statement is MAX's don't ruin fights. They prolong them. That's a big difference in perspective from other people because I prefer longer drawn out fights. Others do not, and thus they say the fight was "ruined" because of MAX's.

    The top uber elite heavy users of whatever server you are on want to be able to solo and go on huge killstreaks in one life without dying as possible. A MAX stands in the way of that, especially if he can break a good heavy user's perch (either at the top of stairs or peaking in and out of corners/doorways). Whereas a base would have been overrun in 3 or 5 minutes without MAX's, with them it could last 30 mins to even an hour under heavy siege and with proper support.

    There are so many anti-MAX counters, that to me it is laughable how people rage about them.
    -sticky nades
    -av nades (bandolier)
    -conc nades (bandolier) lol this one is fun when used in a coordinated attack
    -dumbfire rockets
    -other AV MAX's and NC MAX Grinder/Hacksaw
    -C4 (all classes can access it so no excuses)
    -prox. mines coupled with tank mines
    -AV Mana turret
    And that's just indoors.

    My go-to is the conc nade, and almost never fails me. I don't feel outclassed by a MAX in any way as a heavy. Now when ZOE was good, I would agree that it was hell fighting MAX's. Now as an NC heavy, they (TR/VS MAX's) are easy pickins. From condensing a few of the points brought up, I feel the gist of the responses to the OP is the NC MAX is too OP and it needs another mega nerf into uselessness, even though it has received quite a few substantial nerfs since the game's inception.

    I will continue to monitor the thread to see if my suspicions of the direction this is going will bear fruit.

    Here's a pro-tip that apparently some of the people in this thread have forgotten, ignored, or probably never realized because they have a one-dimensional way of thinking. MAX's, as I posited earlier, create stalemates. This in turn creates massive opportunities, especially in heavily populated fights, for flankers to deliciously kill large groups of people. Since the medic/heavy entourage of MAX's are just sitting there focused on who's dying and who needs repairs respectively, they forget that a good flanker, be it another MAX or other class, can come at them from a totally unexpected angle. That's why MAX's are imo a good thing. For the people with very little situational awareness, it allows them to stay in one place and get many certs doing repetitive, unskilled labor. For the more skilled and pushing-the-envelope players, it allows for some great small killstreaks and equally good cert points. The NC MAX is the ultimate flanking MAX, and I feel like the arguments from NC that they are not good at range overlooks this unique conveyor of carnage that NC MAX's are at close range.

    There is great value in having lots of MAX's standing around when they create stalemates. They are cert fountains effectively (when you combine them with their support entourage of meds/engis). You just have to be willing to not always attack from the front all the time, as most players new or old tend to do by default for whatever reasons.

    At any rate, there is no better feeling than throwing a bunch of conc/av nades into a room held by MAX's and hearing Recursion Stat Tracker going off in the background proving that they are indeed good for the cert bank.
    • Up x 1
  9. Klondor

    I value maxes to a high degree, if there's a MAX crash going on i usually switch to my "MAXimum Assistance" (lol) engineer loadout and just tail max units and do anything i can to keep them running. I think maxes are balanced, they're slow and easy to kill with explosives and vehicles, but tough enough to shrug off small arms fire and dish it back. They're minibosses in a sense.
  10. SkepticJerry

    You wanna ruin a MAX unit's day? Start using AV grenades.
    • Up x 1
  11. TheBloodEagle

    I don't even play MAX but I enjoy fighting against & with them. Too many babies in this community like the 2nd poster destroy the game because they think everything is "cheese" unless they approve of it.

    Too many people want to devolve this into some basic *** CS reskin.
  12. Tcsisek

    or the tanks you were using to camp the spawn, or 1 lib, or being crafty and putting a AT mine next to you're AP mine, or a few LAs flanking with c4, or an infiltrator sniping you're engineers so you don't get repaired, or a few well placed engineer turrets and HAs with their lunchers, or out numbering them 2/1, or using a combination of any of these. their are good counters to them, they are harder to kill but very slow and venerable without an engineer. plus i can win a small fight if i place a mana turret at the consul, i took a base by my self with 3 hostile tr guys, i could also cap the point then snipe all the people who exit the spawn, or even just get a lighting (not the vanguard it sucks at Anti infantry). you see my point? their are lots of ways to both counter maxes and replace them for what you say as ruining small fights.
  13. Tcsisek

    but after 10-15 feat nc is useless with their maxes slug rounds don't help much either.
  14. Tcsisek

    yea they do 1 you still need to be accurate, if you miss a shot that increases time to kill 2 so not being able to kill anything at a range of beyond 15 meters is not bad.
  15. AmitGr

    I'm fine with MAX crashes. They are tactical and used by an organized force.

    I do have a problem with every lone-wolfer spawning a max, and now it requires teamwork of 3 people to take it down. Teamwork is fine, but with the current state of MAX, and their amount - it's absurd.

    MAX was designed to be an assault unit to breach in/out rooms. It does it pretty well when used correctly.
    The problem is it does so many other things too well as well.

    My suggestion:
    Make it a timer unit. (No, not Cool-Down, timer).
    You spawn a MAX, you have X minutes with it. When they expired, you are back to your previous class.

    It will allow MAX pushes, but will deny people spawning a MAX and farming a teleporter room 24/7.
    Obviously, resources cost will be balanced accordingly.
    • Up x 2
  16. Surmise

    I cant if im free player because i dont get that much resources to just spam it mindlessly(would rather spawn a MAX top kek?) also in order to do any serious damage to MAX the grenade needs to explode very closely to MAX otherwise you just tickle them with your awesome MAX rap1ng tool.

    boom your argument is invalid

    P.S; i like your suggestion AmitGr for a MAX to be a 'timer' unit sounds very good actually.
  17. xboxerdude

    What about conc grenades, doesn't even need to be close.......
  18. Kafein

    I dislike MAXes when I'm having fun doing whatever then a wild MAX appears and I get instagibbed. My feeling is more of the "oh well" kind than anger really. I realise that this is a teambased game and expecting to be able to kill anything vaguely resembling infantry when I positively outskilled someone is maybe not reasonable. But I can't help but find the occurence of succesfully sneaking around then being denied the reward because there's a MAX in the vicinity of my victim disheartening. It's similar to carefully flanking and unloading AP rounds into a vanguard's back then watching it press its win button.

    More often than not the best attitude against MAXes is to actively avoid them rather than trying to kill them, just like vanguards as a tanker. I can theoritically use my C4, conc or av grenades, dumbfires and whatnot, but all that is inefficient and risky compared to shooting infantry in the back and from rooftops. The role of killing MAXes is better assumed by the usual cannonfodder that don't have anything better to do, I guess.
  19. oherror

    Yep. Loved forcing a base neutral and having the defending players in basically tighty whities with what ever gun they had in a locker. I did love base fights in PS1 they seemed to be more awesome.
  20. SkepticJerry

    You have no clue what you are talking about. Why would you spam AV grenades mindlessly? You use them on Max's. It also kills their engineers. Win-Win.
    • Up x 1