Why do aircraft get to be anti-everything?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Thpthpthp, May 19, 2014.

  1. PKfire

    If a ESF is equipped purely for A2G they'll be running Banshee or PPA as well (Airhammer being the exception), in which case their A2A capabilities are basically that, zero.
  2. Volccis

    With a Lightning yes. Could Lightning get a buff? I dont know, maybe? But you want to just nerf aircrafts instead to make Lightning more interesting to play.

    With MBT you can choose HE + AV secondary weapon or AP + AI secondary. That single AV weapon however wont destroy a MBT tank with AP + AV weapon but will win AP Lightnings and some less skilled MBT crews. Also you can kill infantry with AP + AV weapons too, requires more skill tho but its not super hard and even I can do it with Lightning. You are just imagining your MBT incapabilities now.
    Ah, I nearly forgot aircrafts but you never wanted a buff against aircrafts?

    We can of course nerf things and it really doesnt matter do we buff or nerf. However infantry, AA and aircrafts are now well balanced, its just those tanks who are behind. So imo easier solution would buff tanks, Lightning and MBTs and buff them against aircrafts, somehow. Or perhaps only Lightning? I dont know what you want beside to nerf aircrafts which isnt the solution imo.

    That is also very good point.
  3. Flag

    Just to clarify: "No clue how to aim" means you're not even mediocre. At that point you're bad.
    But let's assume you're an ok shot, befitting the label mediocre.
    At that point, most likely -if- I use the HEAT-walker. If I win it's because you messed up something awful, not because of me being good (although that helps).
    Besides, to me your posts looks more like a good argument to nerf the coyotes than anything, but that might be me reading more into it than you intended. Then again, maybe not.

    Again this shows that there's a problem with the coyotes being too good.
    The problem of aircraft weapons being more versatile than the ground counterparts is still true, tomcats excluded.

    The way the tomcats work is how the ESF weapons should work.
    They do one role, and can be fairly good at it, but because you get two weapons it's important to make sure they're restricted like they are.

    Let me point out the big problem I have here.

    Are you so biased towards air that you fail to see how this point alone is infuriating?
    I'd quote Steven Fry, but last time I did the forum mods decided it was against forum guidelines.

    Anyway, what do you think we're asking for? "More guns" ? No, we're asking for air to be subjected to the same balancing and specialization rules that ground is.

    I wonder, do you even know the ramifications of the current situation for air?
    I outlined it a few days ago, but I'll give you the TL;DR version.
    • Because air is too strong, AA is too strong.
    • Because air is too strong, it's too good in small fights.
    • Because AA is too strong, air is too easy to negate completely in bigger fights.
    Nerf air -> nerf AA -> the two huge problems could be solved (don't know for sure, as it's never been done in the game so far).
    Do you disagree?
    There's more to this than just wanting air nerfed, but I think you missed that memo.
    • Up x 1
  4. Volccis

    There is of course different ways to solve the balance issues.

    Nerf air -> nerf AA. I'm completely fine with that but the nerf to AA must be noticeable. I'd always willing to give up my secondary slot away if they would nerf AA alot. And I dont need Extra AB Pods, Tomcats, Coyotes if my opponents have only Rocketpods/Hornets or AI Noseguns :D And top of that I could fly pretty freely over enemy AA, yes please. However you probably understood this would make ESF solely an A2A fighter which probably isnt bad idea and thats what most of us are doing anyway. Now when Liberators are extremely vulnerable against ESFs they probably couldnt fly at all because none would play ESF with Rocketpods/Hornets/AI Noseguns if it means they are 99% free kills for other ESFs so all ESF would go after Liberators and ESFs.

    Also you probably understood as well that this would strengthen that, "If you dont fly you cannot kill aircrafts". Because Rocketpodding ESFs would be even stronger against ground units and only what could make them away from rocketpodding would be A2A ESF pilots. If you are suggesting more nerf to air in top of that then its just same to buff tanks right now.

    But im up for that nerf air -> nerf aa thing. I think you want to give only one weapon for ESFs and thats it? Its fine. Lets make it through together? But oh wait, there was already an ESF update and I think MBT update is coming sooner than another ESF update :(
  5. Flag

    What the change would do is that air would have to persist for -longer- to do the same damage as before, so AA would actually have a longer window of opportunity. The biggest part here is that both the ESF and the people who in the past stood no chance of survival have a better chance of not dying instantly.

    Do you know why they're not having plans of adding mobile artillery for long distance bombing? Because having no real chance of fighting back. That's how it is against air in a lot of situations, and also how air has it in large fights with proper AA coverage.
    Neither situation is actually any good, and so far I've not seen a better solution that the one I briefly outlined here.
    And when it comes down to it, I do suspect you actually agree with me here, coyotes not withstanding.
    • Up x 1
  6. Rhumald

    I'm actually all for a universal nerf to both AA and Aircraft, because I agree, they're too strong against all ground units, most new players simply have 0 counters for them. I think dog fights would be more interesting if they lasted a bit longer, which would also encourage newer pilots to try it out, as they'd have more opportunity to disengage if things felt too hot for them.

    I also feel like aerial units should get EXP for damaging other aircraft, just like ground units do, to encourage a friendlier atmosphere (I know, it's war, but it's also a game, and ESF flight is arguably one of the most unforgiving and discouraging aspects to it).

    I understand the hardcore players wouldn't like the more relaxed playstyle, but let's be honest here, the whole design and operational philosophy of an ESF has never really been nail biting adrenaline pumping action.

    Edit: I can't spell for beans today.
    • Up x 2
  7. Chazt

    Unless the damage capabilities of aircraft are lowered significantly I can't see an AA nerf being justified, simply because of liberators. Anti-air rockets are easily dodged or repaired through, small arms can't hurt liberators or galaxies. This destroys any and all chance new players have of dealing with air vehicles, leaving the only remaining options as burster maxes or base turrets (which are usually destroyed first by any smart pilot). In a nutshell, there is nothing an infantry force can do about them. which is just flat out sad. No one starts off with anti-air, it it takes time and certs to get an anti-air lighting, or aa capabilities for your heavy assault or sunderer which makes dealing with them a terrible burden for new players.
    • Up x 2
  8. Kid Gloves

    I'll throw my 2c in this one; why not?

    What I think is needed is more bad AA.

    PS1's automatic base turrets (and spitfires) existed for a very good reason. They don't need to be accurate. They don't need to hit like trucks. They just need to be enough to discourage the casual lolpodder from attacking a base on their own without any support. The aircraft should still be able to make hit-and-fade attacks on the base - but an 8v8 fight that has a liberator swinging overhead once every minute is a very different fight to one with a liberator parked overhead raining death.

    Either that, or the existing AA options need to be properly viable at non-AA roles. But I'm not a fan of that, because that sounds too much like homogenisation to me.
    • Up x 2
  9. Flag

    That's the entire point of the suggestion.
    • Up x 1
  10. Hauser

    This is a poor argument. A MBT also requires teamwork to perform well. A MBT with A/V secondary might as well carry a large crosshair on its roof, as it's defenseless against anything airborne. A MBT with a Walker or a Ranger can fend off EFSs decently, but still carries the same crosshair w r t Liberators.

  11. Aesir

    The basic G2A requirement for ...


    ... Carnival time.
  12. Flag


    And -just- in case people want to know where that's from...

  13. Aesir

    We can actually be happy that SOE isn't watching stuff like that ... they might get some nanite ideas.

    You remember the corrosive warheads from that series? The perfect "nanites" excuse to remove OHK from every bigger "AV" weapon against Infantry in the game ...
  14. Flag

    Shush! Quiet!

    Some wild SoE employee might show itself by accident! :eek:

    Either that, or we'll see some libs be given gravity-guns!
  15. RaidsRUs

    Gravity OP; nerf gravity?
  16. Flag

    I don't think you understood the reference ._.

    (although technically the reference is to a 'graviton gun', but whatever)
  17. RaidsRUs

    I'm vaguely aware of what you meant, but ended up decided to make my own joke and then not explain it. Somehow, my mind did some bizarre association where if you nerf gravity, we'd all catapult skyward and be targets for AA (don't ask me why the AA wouldn't, I'm not entirely sure how my own mind works when it comes to "humor"). It might also have had something to do with the videos going around that demonstrate the silly state of vehicle physics.
  18. Flag

    No, I meant ... hang on, got to find the video.

    Ok, but be warned that this video doesn't really show very much as far as effectiveness is concerned. Also it's anime.

  19. RaidsRUs

    Point taken. Don't let Libs have those.
  20. Volccis

    Omg this thread is evolving into an anime movie.

    About this I wouldnt mind if they would decrease ESF's weapons DPS/Damage. Currently if you get jumped by an enemy ESF you are pretty much dead if the pilot is good, tho its not always true because you can hear an ESF from hundreds of meters. But it would kill hover duels because they already last very long and with this change they would last longer, but I dont really mind because hover fighting from long distance is pretty boring.