[Suggestion] why are you changing the red october sign?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by 4EMODAN, Jun 29, 2022.

  1. 4EMODAN

    I specifically bought this badge because of the similarity with the Soviet Union. This is a common history of many states that were part of this country, and for many years this sign did not bother anyone, and suddenly you decided to change it, are you kidding me? the history of this sign since the first planetside.
    • Up x 3
  2. 4EMODAN

    if you have a democracy, then give Russia a badge for 1 sert, as they did with Ukraine.
    • Up x 1
  3. Demigan

    If the Germans had started invading neighbouring countries for Lebensraum then their flag would likely be scrapped as well. Russia hasnt been very subtle, we have speeches of Putin where he admits to thinking Ukraine seceding was a mistake that needs to be corrected, then out of nowhere without preamble they want to "denazifi" Ukraine? And even if all you do is listen to the Russian news it doesnt make sense. Like why would you wait more than a month with evidence that Ukraine was supposedly preparing to invade the Donets area's (even though the timeline would be too short to effectively mobilize and invade the Donets area's per the documents dates and the mobilization timeline of Ukraine)? Something that conveniently pops up just as you are revealing you want to stop attacking the meatgrinder that was Kyiv? Also what exactly was the point of launching artillery strikes against the capitol city (and the villages and cities across the country) if all you want is to "save" the Donets area's?

    What Russia is doing is in no way good, and we should remove any support for their cause like flags of either Russia or the Soviet Union that Putin is in part trying to recreate. And if that hurts you... that is a shame. But a necessary shame until the Russian leadership stops attacking Ukraine.
    • Up x 3
  4. RabidIBM

    I would support you in wanting your Red October thing, and would also support removing the Puzi flag from the game.

    The Russian Federation =/= The Soviet Union.
  5. Skytta

    I'm +1 for people having the option to have whatever badge that they bought remain as it was when they bought it. this is just common sense. changing a cosmetic after people buy it because Current Thing is an unbelievably ****** thing to do.

    why you would want anything similar to the soviet union is beyond me, but i'm not the one who bought the thing.

    off-topic, somewhat: it's just bandwagon nonsense; whatever flags etc. are up will change depending on Current Thing, without actual thought. posts like the ones by demigan are excuses to support Current Thing. i've not been paying attention to things regarding planetside, but i'd not be surprised for everyone to receive a free ukraine-inspired cosmetic, while there's nothing that could represent, for an example, palestine or tibet or any other similar countries.
  6. Demigan

    The Swastika wasnt a "thing" until the **** party made it a "thing". Where "thing" means "symbol". They made it a symbol for antisemitism, terror, torture, genocide. Similarly the Soviet flag became a symbol of genocide, imprisonment/forced labor of peoples they didnt like, draconian measures which included the ones that left a massive portion of Ukraine dead from starvation despite it being an important food producer for the Soviet Union. The breaking apart of the Soviet Union was a result of all the people not wanting to be a part of it anymore due to the horrorshow they had.

    And now Russia has the stated goal of basically bringing the Soviet Union back, and does so by attacking Ukraine and using genocide, forced deportation (possibly to concentration camps), no distinction between civilian or military targets, purposefully attacking civilian infrastructure like water processing and medical care to force civilians and military out, using excessive weapons like white phosphorous and cluster munitions etc. You ask us to do nothing and just let people use these symbols "because they could before"?

    Your whataboutism about Tibet and Palestina are reasons to do more, not to ignore what is happening in Ukraine.

    You are the one making excuses to justify people using symbolism for hatred, warcrimes, deportation, genocide etc. You are the one who is doing an unbelievable ****** thing.
  7. Exileant

    ;) I said it before, and I will say it again. Russia's flag is not like the Rebel, Confederate Flag or **** emblem; and all of Russia is not united in what is going on. All of this canceling Russia is getting out of hand. People are taking Whitewashing to all new levels. If you want to protest or show your support, do something that actually matters. :D Hop on Twitter and send some words of support, or send them some money. Do you honestly thing the Citizens of Ukrane honestly care about anybody flying or not flying a flag in support of them when missiles are slamming into hospitals and hotels and houses? o_O They need weapons and people to use them. Russia's people exist and cannot help who they are being led by no more than we could when we were being. "Led into the ground by the THOUSANDS" by T-Rump.

    Find another way to make your stand. Speak out as a company, start a Charity fund and offer special items like Bungie does and make a difference! :( Erasing history is not the way.

    :D I find it hilarious that so many movies and games romaticized Russia being the bad guys before this and were just fine with that, until now. o_O:mad: White cops are murdering black people left and right, black churches are being shot up and burned to the ground and I have not seen a popular game make a stand on any of that YET.
    • Up x 1
  8. VV4LL3

    Seems like a no brainer. If someone was a fan of fascism, think it would be appropriate to allow historical references to clearly fascist signs? The ole' Red Hammer and Sickle is clearly a reference to the former USSR.

    Because communism is bad, democracy is good. How are we even having this discussion in the 21st century?

    More people have died under communism than any other political system in the history of the world.
    100 Years of Communism—and 100 Million Dead - WSJ

    Let's talk briefly about modern politics then:

    The modern Russian Federation flag, (red, white, blue horizontal strikes), on the other hand, is currently engaged in a highly unjust war. For a private company like DBG to demonstrate support for Ukraine, it is a an easy and relatively safe topic to support, vice a social issue where there is a lot subject to interpretation.

    Do we fault DBG for making the UA flag a cheap cosmetic, and not the Russian Federation? Nah, the evidence is clear, civilians dying on a mass scale...

    So, forgive us for not endorsing either of your complaints that propagate the glorification of communism, or the current Russian Federation at this time in history.
  9. Skytta

    dude bought a cosmetic, and, it seems, the company changed the cosmetic

    looks like a no-brainer to me

    he should at least be offered a refund


    "Seems like a no brainer. If someone was a fan of fascism, think it would be appropriate to allow historical references to clearly fascist signs? The ole' Red Hammer and Sickle is clearly a reference to the former USSR.

    Because communism is bad, democracy is good. How are we even having this discussion in the 21st century?"

    because a) people disagree, and b) people like different stuff. you can like hugo boss etc. without supporting ***** for an example
  10. VV4LL3


    a. Well, people may disagree, but that doesn't change the facts. The company obviously agrees with factual history. Feel free to read up on it on your own, I lived it.

    b. Of course people can like different stuff. Does that mean swastika or the Red Hammer and Sickle like flags should be available? Sure, the company may have the freedom do publish them, but is it worth the consequence? Unlikely.
    • Up x 1
  11. Exileant

    :confused: I still say that is not valid comparison. European Swastika is not the same as U.S.S.R.s flag. Good was done under the ol' Hammer and SCYTHE. o_O Also by rights, if you really want to dig down deep into history NO current flag should be available in the game, because to get where they are today from where they were, 90% countries killed off the civilization that was living there first.

    The 3rd Reich is not the only faction that has participated in acts of Genocide, however as it is the most documented, and to this day STILL has a warped group of followers, (Idiots that have no clue that in all likelihood they too would have been sent to the furnaces...) out of respect for the people who died because of it back then, what it stood for, what it still DOES stand for: the ideology that leads people to attempt Genocide on a smaller scale; (Hate CRIMES) an exception should be made for it not to be available even though the first working Jet Engine was made under it.

    ;) They were the first to put a man out into space. That alone grants Flag Rights. If they want to make a stand, they should be making charity items to be bought, and they give 100% of the proceeds to an area of Ukrane that needs it. :( Like say the CHILDREN GOING TO SCHOOL IN BASEMENTS, widows and orphans. That would help much more, and go much further to show your support in a game they cannot play because lights and internet was knocked out by an artillery shell, DAY ONE....
  12. VV4LL3

    WOAH -- Never thought I'd see the day that the USSR's crimes be praised, let alone justified.

    BLUF: You need to brush up on your history. Still love ya though.

    There's plenty of information out there. Soviets alone, under THAT RED FLAG (not going to even touch on the Chinese)...from death camps, organized killing, etc. for their roughly 70 yrs of existence was responsible for 60-90 MILLION deaths!!!!!! We're not talking about reaching far back into history -- only a couple of years. The ***** were terrible, no doubt -- BOTH committed crimes against humanity on a gross scale. You say "Why didn't the world mobilize against the USSR then, like we did the *****?" Simple - Politics, and the eventual gaining of nuclear weapons a few years after WW2. That sums it up and why there was a Cold War.

    Only by the literal way they look. But you're right, more have died under Soviet rule than the *****. Both were atrocious. The Cold War lasted for 50 years as a result, and having carefully stood off due to a nuclear armed superpower.. the rest is history.

    Good was done under the ol' swastika too. The advances of modern medicine and conditions have many **** doctor names. It besmirches medicine so much that the act of naming diseases and conditions after oneself has been removed since many were after *****. It came at the cost of innocent people. That does not justify those findings or the lives saved as a result though.

    Deadly medicine: How the ***** influenced modern medical ethics | UNMC
    What Did **** Research Contribute To Medical Science? (allthatsinteresting.com)

    False. We judge history through the lens of its era. Even during the times of these nation's existence, they were not scrupulous nor civilized by any means. It wasn't until WW 1 - 2, that we had combat at such a large scale to change the effects. Even then, many countries wanted to take a non-interventionalist position, including the US and UK.

    True. USSR have as well. Patton in WW2 wanted to take Moscow out because he knew the ideology and history of the soviets, the leaders at the time, and foresaw great tragedy. Addressing ONLY documentation as your basis of comparison. The only reason we have those documents is because we defeated them, at great cost. Prior to the invasion, even with aerial photos of camps, we had no idea to the extent of the tragedy. Similarly, post dissolution of the USSR in 91, many documents did come to light, however the regime wasn't defeated nor an external group given custody of documents. Instead, the government went through a reorganization, shuffle, if you will... which why people like Putin are in charge. The secret police still exist, troves of documents still exist, and those that dont -- have been destroyed.

    You too agree that no measure of success should shadow these tragedies. Which means you are severely under informed on the tragedies of the soviet union, or somehow an apologist.

    Definitely not. It is the flag of a highly oppressive regime that has committed acts against humanity. No degree or level of "firsts" can account for this. History has not forgotten, nor the mass graves littered throughout the world, to include the Ukraine. The culture of combat, war doctrine Patton saw in the 40's continues to this day. Aside from comedic irony, and counterculture, there's no reason to sanely, or legitimately defend or justify praise to that government's credit.

    Whatever they wish -- this is a charity/business preference, but NOT keeping any direct correlators to the USSR. Let alone other regimes that have committed grave crimes against humanity.

    To make your life easier, just take a few minutes to watch/listen:
    1. Few minutes of Dictator Talk: Who Killed More? Mao, Stalin, or Hitler? - YouTube
    2. Project Dictator, series on casual history: Project Dictator - YouTube
    3. Casual Historian on the USSR: A Historian Breaks Down Oversimplified - Cold War (Part 1) - YouTube

  13. Towie

    I have absolutely no problem with the Soviet Union flag - i'm sure many are proud of it.

    The moment that it started being draped over tanks invading the Ukraine it became utterly toxic.
    Starting a war on a friendly neighbor of the very same Slavic people ? Appalling. Removal of this flag is totally justified.