Why are the NC so bad?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hotbread, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Hotbread

    Title. On every server the NC consistently under perform. The TR and the VS seem to be passing 45/55 in victories but the NC on every single server are not even breaking 30%
    What's wrong? I have an NC character, the weapons are fine. Most of the time (on connery) Their population is roughly the same if not more than other factions.
    Why are the NC so bad?

    • Up x 1
  2. Hotbread

    36/38* % not 45/55. I mean to say the VS win more than the TR but not by a huge margin.
  3. Scroffel5

    Them is fightin' wurds.

    Probably true. We lose a lot.
  4. PlanetBound

    When NC wins there's usually a disciplined outfit that deserves the credit.
    • Up x 4
  5. FateJH

    I've never been able to have a dedicated NC character on any server because I can never stand more than a couple of days interacting my compatriots.
  6. Twin Suns

    It's all about that sweet Freedom...the Freedom to not give a shizzit about DBG's trinkets for winning one. ;)
  7. LaughingDead

    Well there are a few distinct disadvantages the NC has. Let's start with the heavy, bread and butter of any composition, namely resist shield.

    Doing the math, resist shields come out to a 568hp increase, making a heavy's total health pool 1568. The most common damage model for TR and VS is the 750rpm and 143dpb, usually resulting in a 11 shot kill for resist shield heavies, NC's most common damage model is 600rpm with a 167 damage model, resulting in a 10 shot kill. I don't think I have to tell anyone here that the slower RPM that has to achieve the same amount of bullets is going to lose out against something with a higher rpm and only requiring one more bullet. NC's distinct lack of 750rpm model weapons can attribute to that despite other factions getting models with similar damage profiles as the NC's main guns; such as the maw to anchor or the kindred to cyclone while NC is more or less getting shafted on newer weapons with inferior models for damage output.

    Now secondly, when it comes to the ES launcher, the NC straight lose out in every which way. Phoenix's are countered by shooting at them or simply being faster than the rocket, are actually shorter range than most lockons (if not just all) and are incredibly low damage per minute. Lancers and strikers offer moderate damage at long distances at relevant targets, such as aircraft. Lancers being able to nearly one shot an ESF with a charged shot followed by a quick followup shot give ESFs no room to operate for A2G if there are decent VS heavies present, strikers give TR heavies the ability to create a semi-permanent flak zone being able to either chip down air or simply lock it out without having to deal with the nanite costs of anything. But then there's a weakness to both of these weapons: Maxes. If you're running in a base with these weapons, heavies are much more unlikely to be effective against a max.

    But that gives great leadup to what I'm about to talk about next; MAXes. NC basically have a nearly useless one, people aren't pulling them for anything anymore except niche ground AV style negations of zerg pushes in which you could honestly just preplace the ravens with 2 lock heavies. Since the NC max isn't being used nearly as much, counters for the TR and VS max have significantly dropped relying almost entirely on heavies and C4 to remove opposing maxes in which the opposing max, no longer needing to fear NC maxes can simply equip flak armor to resist most of the damage.

    Lastly the Vanguard is possibly the least flexible tank in the game, only truly shining when it comes to slugfests with point blank opponents that aren't the prowler or his support. The vanguard has the least amount of damage which gives it the slowest time to kill of any other tank in the game on almost any target, hesh, heat, ap, all turrets are significantly weaker in the damage dealing department over time, resulting in a poor clearing time of enemy vehicles. What it does to "make up" for this is the ability to duel other tanks with it's increased HP and vanguard shield, but inadvertently this gives it the higher downtime for repairs giving it an even slower clear rate for enemy bases.

    Dealing with enemy heavies is the worst for NC
    NC heavies generally have the worst tools for dealing with vehicles
    NC MAXes are simply terrible and give TR/VS maxes no better counter
    NC MBTs are the least effective at being a vehicle clearing tool which is the most important part of being an MBT.
  8. TR5L4Y3R

    i´m still of the opinion that NC heavies need a better starter lmg
    either gr22s or em1 ... gausssaw even if fully equiped with attachements is still very punishing on misses ...

    faction performance needs to be good enough with the default options ..

    and as such new players should have already the nessesary weapons such as aalaunchers for the HA, burster and AI maxweapon .. as well as infil boltaction (not juct NC) ..
  9. Campagne

    In my opinion the main reason for the NC's consistent failure to control territories is their vehicle selections and armaments.

    The NC's infantry is more or less the same, while infantry combat in general is jam-packed full of carbon-copy equipment and abilities and generally relies more on skill than equipment for most engagements.

    For example, the Vanguard is awful. The only thing it has going for it is the shield and an extra 1000 HP, which takes extra time to repair. Bottom tier DPS with very little maneuverability and not much more. If it didn't have the shield and/or the extra health it would lose almost every fight sheerly because of how little damage it can put out.

    For the Vanguard's topguns as well as NC harassers, the Enforcer is just not very good at anything and the Mjolnir demands a very high accuracy to out-DPS a Vulcan or Aphelion but lacks the accuracy, RoF, or range to achieve it. Bursts will very often miss one or more grenades simply because the cone is too large with the slow and heavy projectiles. If the weapon fired four hitscan bullets it'd likely allow for a much higher accuracy. On top of this, the Mjolnir's maximum DPS is barely higher than a Vulcan's or Aphelion's potentials but is almost impossible to reach without sitting at a touch to the enemy.

    The Canister just isn't very good, but none of the ESAI topguns are great.

    The Reaver is a flying brick with the largest overall hitbox and lowest speed in almost every respect. The only useful strength it has is very high DPS noseguns which require very high accuracies to use effectively... Against the other two notably smaller framed ESFs.

    There's also a whole bunch of miscellaneous junk all over the place like the NC's recent MAX mega-nerf and general less-than-useful weapons like the Buzzard or Jackhammer or Phoenix and all that crud.

    The TR & VS just don't suffer nearly as bad in all factors and are almost universally superior in vehicular equipment, in my opinion.
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  10. pnkdth

    Over the entire course of PS2 the NC have had a terrible brand. Most new players who seek teamwork get a suggestion to go to TR/VS and this has never changed. Wins on Live depends on, in addition to well organised outfits, the ability to engage the large masses. Even a semi-organised zerg can be incredibly hard to shift. Most other open world PvP also tend have a faction which runs away with it and rather amazingly PS2 has both TR and VS who has won a similar amount of alerts (at least up until when PS2alerts stopped working properly).

    Plenty of great NC players and outfits but, yeah, it is rare to see the same kind of large scale investment on NC as on the other factions. Consistency is key and it has historically been easier to find that on the other two factions. Not to mention the infamous ghost capping crews on VS/TR on off-peak hours.
  11. Scroffel5

    I think NC is garbage because the other factions have better leaders going on. I do sometimes think that the VS and TR tanks are stronger, because I almost always lose to them in a 1/2 tank fight. That being said, my MBT isn't upgraded so that doesn't help. The Reaver is so easy to hit and to me, it is ugly. I don't get why anyone who is getting their weapons from TR and modding them to be better has failed so badly. I like the Railjack though. I think that NC vehicles need a buff, and the NC MAX needs to have 2 decent damage snipers that it can put on, so that it won't get eliminated at close by everything else. All the MAX could do was close range, and then it sucked, but now, it can't do any range. I have seen less and less MAXs lately too.

    I think my Railjack needs a buff, but that is just me being biased. I think the Harrasser, even though I dislike it, needs a buff. I don't think you know how many times TR and VS just spam vehicles at us, and we can't do anything about it, even if we have higher pop. They bring an MBT; we can't do much except C4 is. They bring some Harrassers; we can't stop them, especially if it is a TR Harrasser. (There was a lone TR Harrasser with that annoying chaingun, and it destroyed a Lightning before the Lightning could destroy it. We had to C4 it or Tank Mine it or something. It also destroys Sunderers way too fast.) If they send in Flashs, hehe boi, that is my specialty. If they send in air, any air at all, we are dead and there is nothing we can do about that either. If they send in MAXs, we gotta C4 that too.
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  12. Scrundle

    I ADORE the Railjack, it is the very essence of NC weapon design distilled into a beautiful tool of awe.
    If anything I want it to be LOUDER and LARGER, I want it to deafen and confuse myself and the people standing next to me when I fire it, I want the air in front of me to ripple and crack and if the bullet tracer could say "FREEDOM" stretched out from barrel to render limit that'd be just great.

    The Railjack takes the concept of sniping, that boring lonesome job of hiding somewhere and picking targets off and says "No, that is not the NC way". It proudly declares its presence, it isn't afraid of enemy snipers; It sees an enemy sniper and says "Here, hold my beer". And that isn't a metaphorical beer, it's an NC brand Suits approved FREEDOM BEER, paid for with the bonus cheques you earn just for pulling the trigger of such a majestic weapon.
  13. Scroffel5

    I want to see a close range secondary fire mode, like all the other ones. I would like it to be louder. I want the enemies to know whose house it is when they hear that bullet whizz by their head. We need to create a post and get lots of buzz on it so that the devs will listen.
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  14. Scrundle

    I may be wrong on this but I believe it was originally going to have a secondary shotgun mode, which someone at some point during development obviously thought "Wait, we can't give this incredible sniper rifle a shotgun fire alt also, no one person can handle that much power" so it was quashed.
  15. Scroffel5

    You are right, except it was because the other factions, so they scrapped the idea. I want that. A shotgun mode that requires you to hit them twice would be nice.
  16. iller

    On Connery... it's a problem of losing every single Outfit that was worth a damn. Recursion especially.... yes they still PLAY, but they're not maining as NC anymore. Same goes for the decent Pilots they used to have also. No one who used to "Achor" the NC still leads Ops on a regular basis anymore and being infantry was just NEVER fun for the NC. (especially now that their MAXes are toast also)
  17. Wolfborne

    Simply not true.

    First shot = 750 dmg
    2.93 secs = 1,500 dmg
    5.86 secs = 2,250 dmg
    8.79 secs = 3,000 dmg
    11.72 secs = 3,750 dmg
    14.54 secs = 4,500 dmg
    17.58 secs = 5,250 dmg and Prowler destroyed
    20.51 secs = 6,000 dmg and Vanguard destroyed, IF you caught the Vanguard without the use of its shield

    First shot = 850 dmg
    3.38 secs = 1,700 dmg
    6.76 secs = 2,550 dmg
    10.14 secs = 3,400 dmg
    13.52 secs = 4,250 dmg
    16.90 secs = 5,000 dmg and Magrider / Prowler destroyed

    Prowler (broken down to include 0.5 second reload between shots)
    First shot = 600 dmg
    0.5 secs = 1,200 dmg
    3.65 secs = 1,800 dmg
    4.15 secs = 2,400 dmg
    7.3 secs = 3,000 dmg
    7.8 secs = 3,600 dmg
    10.95 secs = 4,200 dmg
    11.45 secs = 4,800 dmg
    14.16 secs = 5,400 dmg and Magrider destroyed
    14.66 secs = 6,000 dmg and Vanguard destroyed

    The Vanguard destroys the Magrider ~4 seconds faster than the Magrider can make the dash to do 6,000 damage to the Vanguard. The Prowler is the fastest killing tank, followed by the Vanguard.
  18. LaughingDead

    1. I said lowest DPS, I never said it doesn't duel. The only reason it even competes 1v1 is because it has slightly more HP, in turn it has the worst mobility and repair times out of the three while the other two DO have more DPS
    2. You're not factoring in topguns. If it was just a main turret contest then we wouldn't have to draw up these charts.
    3. Strictly speaking, what you're going off of here, is that the magrider actually has similar DPS to the vanguard (well at least the AP) and that if the vanguard didn't have 1k extra health, the kill times would be literally half a second of difference. But you're telling me that by that technicality, it has slightly *slightly* more DPS than the magriders main turret but has all the maneuverability it wants along with escape tools that border along the lines of jumping up cliffs and allowing it to strafe shots at long distances if need be while keeping its frontal armor facing the enemy.

    Sounds to me like a net gain.

    If this game was 100% about who could slug whom every 40 seconds or so, vanguard would be king, but it's not. Not even close.
  19. Silkensmooth

    I have a godsaw and a butcher, and for me the base gauss saw is the best heavy lmg and its not even close. I have thousands of kills in all 3 ESF and the mosquito is by far the worst ESF. The scythe is uber, but if your aim is good the reaver is an absolute monster. The reason i mainly play TR is because of the Trap M1. Best infil gun in the game, and because of that i have more friends there and that is also keeping me on TR.
  20. Wolfborne

    Forget dps. Tanks fight are not a stream of constant damage that is measured in seconds. They are measured in damage per round (reload), while factoring in maneuvering, using cover, etc. To that end, the Vanguard has the highest damage per shot at 850 if using AP. Yes, the Prowler has a double tap, but, the driver has to land that double tap. With increased distance, that becomes more difficult to do.

    Every faction has access to the Halberd. If that is the case, then it can be factored out and the chart can be used. However, the Prowler will come out ahead with the Vulcan if up close. Regardless of the top gun, the Magrider will lose in a fight versus the Prowler or Vanguard, all else being equal.

    Again, incorrect. You are not factoring in the Vanguard's shield on top of the extra 1,000 health. The Vanguard is a brawler. The Magrider is not.

    Magburn is only 1 second and it does not get you far. Jumping off cliffs now results in damage, just like hitting a rock or running into a tree. The Prowler and Vanguard can fire over the top of cover; the Magrider can't. The Prowler and Vanguard can roll with convoys as brawlers, but the Magrider is weaker in open field engagements. Forcing Mags to play like "Heavy Harassers" is just dumb for a faction specific MBT.
    • Up x 1

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