Why are MAX Units in this Game?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ParagonExile, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. TorigomaSET

    Guessing you weren't here before the Burster Nerf?
  2. Tommyp2006

    Maxes are infantry, they are part of infantry fights. There are no "5/6 classes only" fights.
    • Up x 1
  3. Stigma

    I'm honestly not sure what MAXes are SUPPOSED to do. I'd guess that they are supposed to be siege-breakers - the sort of unit that can be the first to rush into a camped capturepoint building and absorb fire long enough for the rest of the softies to follow in and have a chance at taking down the defenders. Unfortunately there is very little that 1MAX and 6 softies in tow can't do that just 7 MAXes can't do infinitely better, and there is no real limitation on pulling MAXes aside from whatever your aquisition timer happens to be certed to.

    I think maybe inherrently the problem lies in that MAXes have too much offensive firepower. I'm fine with the damage-tanking ability. That makes sense, but when you couple that with them having just as much mobility as any infantry (same turnrate, same runspeed, only slightly slower acceleration as well as the charge ability) AND the firepower of 2 heavies combined and then some - then it turns into an issue. If they had less firepower so that you couldn't just clear a room of enemies on your own but at least had to rely somewhat on your allies to dish out the hurt while youabsorbed the pain and pushed yourself into the midst of the enemy to rout them then that would have made more sense from a design perspective in my mind at least. It would also dratistically cut down on the most frustrating parts of the MAXes - being the "instagibs" that they get from having so much firepower. There is no problem with a MAX running around the corner and forcing you to flee because you can't expect so solo it due to its HP - it's another thing when you die almost before you can turn around, much less get to cover.

    Basically there isn't any real tradeoff to a MAX, and there isn't any hardcounter to it. There are soft-counters. You can take down a MAX by numerical superiority like having several heavies deal with a MAX, or by risky or skillful plays like YOLO'ing it with C4 and hoping for the best, or landing that perfect conc-nade, but its always an uphill battle at best - and with equal numbers of MAXes vs the same number of softies it is almost always a slaughterhouse. The only true counter to a MAX would be an AV MAX, but AV maxes kill infantry so easily that you may as well just be using that as standard. The NC falcons (the socalled anti-vehicle alternative) literally one-shots soft-infantry. That's always fun...

    Here is a quick idea of how I'd envision a MAX in general: Something along the lines of an NC MAX with the agis ability, and still 2 weapons, but you have to limit yourself to one-pr-type (AI/AV/AA) and can't fire both at once. More HP. Some limitation on turn-rate like a tank turret. This gives lots of versatility for giving AV/AA cover to soft infantry advancing and actually staying with the infantry as their tank. Your role in infantry fights would be to be the "pusher" - to advance with your shield up a stairway in a tower or similar so the enemy can for a short time not just keep spamming the chokepoint - and thus allow your softies to come up while the enemy tries to deal with you. Obviously this is far far from what a MAX is currently, and in the same situation that scatmax would be better used to hit charge to rush up the stairs and go berserk with dual shotties on the defeners, or stay back and spam explosives up the ramp...

    Enough ranting. Just a few ideas on my part.
  4. Donaldson Jones

    Yes..that is the point. Additionally "bad" is your perception not a fact. If you kill me once and that gen needs to be saved you can bet I'll come with a MAX suit and friendlies to remove you. Sorry that is how the game is played. Don't like it use C-4 and see if you can time it right.
  5. Morro

    You lost me here.
  6. Ribero

  7. AnnPerkins

    they're crutches for awful players. Anyone saying they require teamwork is lying to themselves. Walk forward hold down mouse1+mouse2. Sprint back to spawn, spam repair emote till engi repairs you. TEAMWERK!
  8. LT_Latency

    This would be fine if you could carry lots of it.

    Maxxes come equipped with a I-Win button called charge against an infantry units.
  9. vincent-

    Those abilities suck maybe several months back on the zealot but now only nc have something pretty nice. I have yet to see a zealot.
  10. siiix

    well to be honest i hate infantry-only people in this game, i wish they would just all leave

    fair fight 1 on 1 ? really go play a different game, you really have no clue how to play games like this... this game is not about how many times you die or what your KDR is ... F cared how long or how many life it takes to take down a MAX (or tank or plane), its fun... there is just about a gazillion competitive shooter games out there, this is not one of them

    maxes are not fine, they are to weak, and after the update way to expensive
    • Up x 2
  11. BITES

    Most classes already have the ability to counter them for way less than the cost of pulling one. In addition to the recent rez nerf, Its not all roses and bodies everywhere in the MAX camp either.
  12. Stigma

    What "cost"? The infantry resources cost is entirely trivial and pointless considering that you have so much of the stuff that the only real limiter on stuff that costs infantry resources to buy is whether or not you take the time to spend your earned points every 5 minutes by stocking up. Otherwise about 95% of your inf. points are likely to just overflow and go wasted. If the "bank" pool for resources wasn't so limited then the accumulated points might as well have been unlimited.

    I mean, you should be well aware of this, no? With over 50% of your playtime in a MAX and 5654 of them used so far (... I'm not sure I've even spawned that many times...) how relevant could this cost possibly be towards justifying the MAX as being a "superunit"?

  13. Devrailis

    Infantry only players are ruining the game.

    But the bigger problem is, SOE doesn't push the other aspects of the game enough. Vehicle base objectives are non-existent, MAX support abilities are shallow, aircraft balance is a see-saw of nerfs and buffs and libs and ESFs have as meaningful a role in the air as MAXes do on the ground.

    SOE created a combined arms sandbox where only infantry have any meaningful objective role.

    I've been seeing those players take knee-jerk offence when the "CoD argument" gets brought up without realizing why it's valid, and why so many of us are worried about their influencing turning the game into a CoD clone. It's not about the scale of the game, it's about the mentality, that the only valid method of play being your typical boring run and gun infantry peasant mob shooting mindlessly in its hamster maze. If that's what people wanted to play, they'd have stuck to CoD.

    But no, some of us are here for the tanks, for the aircraft, and yes, for the big stompy robot death-machine max suits.

    They can rant and scream and whine all they want, but at the end of the day:

    - Someone is going to pull a tank and stick a few well placed shells up their rectums whether they like it or not.
    - Someone is going to pull a lib and drop dalton rounds on their heads whether they like it or not.
    - Someone is going to pull a MAX and ruin their day with a pair of triple-barrelled automatic shotguns, whether they like it or not.

    Welcome to Planetside.
    • Up x 2
  14. hawken is better

    You have to understand, terrible players need crutches, and I don't really blame them. If you don't want to invest the time into actually being a better player, then you don't have to. Lean on the crutch of your choosing and let loose. Realistically speaking, if I was skill less trash, I'd use as many crutches as I could, too.
  15. Donaldson Jones

    How is that an I-Win button lol if anything C-4 is an I-WIn button you can kill more than one MAX with it ya know....Charge is used 90% of the time to escape..no one seeks to escape a situation they are Winning.
    • Up x 1
  16. BITES

    I can assure you they are not.

    But it is .. so you actually agree there is a point to Resources ... making basically half your post kinda pointless.

    Yes that was my point, MAXes have counters, and the resources make them limited, however your reply shows you are not aware of this, I'm happy to inform you you CANNOT chain pull them without either surviving a reasonable amout of time (or staying at bio labs .. which I'm not a fan of at all ... [yep an NC MAX that doesn't gravitate towards biolabs... you've seen it all folks close up the internet])

    "Relevance" seems to be somewhat vague in your post (eg it virtually has none other than pointing out the obvious and then contradicting yourself..)., and honestly better stat to quote is 29 days 15 hours MAX time, sounds scarier/bigger than "you pulled 5654 of them", and I loved every minute of it :) (well ok cept when the c4 fairies come .. they give me nightmares).
    Only a few more kills till I Aurax all MAX weapons too ;)

    But thanks for elaborating my point.
  17. redshirt

    What often causes problems is the 1-2 max units that pop up in a smaller fights, but remember this is Planetside you will die a fair bit so instead of running like a headless chicken and getting shot in the back by a scat max try and pump him will a few holes before he melts your face. If you and the other players facing down the max all did this that max is in a world of pain. Sure it sucks to be the first one turned into red mist but the guy next to you might now have a chance to pull c4, grenade or missile launcher.

    I also don't understand why I see so few AV and conc grenades being used to counter maxs dug in on a defensive position. AV grenades with a bandoleer are a right barrel of laughs.
    • Up x 1
  18. Paragon Exile

    Well... this gained more attention than I thought this would.

    You guys are such an inclusive and pleasant community, no overt hostility or nonconstructive feedback at all!
  19. Stigma

    I don't contradict myself anywhere in that post. I said that infantry resources are trivial - and they are (along with all the other resources to be fair). The fact that you have "practically unlimited" amounts rather than "actually unlimited" amounts does not make it a meaningful limitation - nor does it represent a contradiction in what I said.

    Can you run out of the stuff if you make an effort at it and play no other roles? Sure, but staying alive for that amount of time in a MAX isn't very challanging most of the time. I pointed to your own career as a case in point of how this works out in real-world use and clearly when you can run around in a MAX 50% of your playtime then it is not meaningfully limited as a superunit - but hey, thanks for just ignoring the point. That's almost as good as answering it I guess...

  20. p10k56

    Why is sky blue? o_Oo_O:D