Why Are Logistics Being Eradicated Instead Of Embraced?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MrJengles, May 28, 2014.

  1. MrJengles

    SOE are slowly removing the scarce Logistical requirements PS2 started with, making the game shallower and shallower (most recently trialing continent-wide Sunderer spawns). At this rate, all we're going to be left with is teleporting around from fight to fight and treating each battle like an individual server from your average shooter. That's not what PS2 should be about.

    Apologies in advance for anyone that has already read this. I am reposting these comments from a while back as I think they deserve their own thread.

    PS2 strives to be a strategic game but has some major flaws right now. The weak resource system and nearly non-existant logistics are killing fun, strategic gameplay more than anything else bar none. One of the symptoms of both is the effectiveness of massive zergs.

    Thankfully, SOE have recognized the resource issues and their revamp is looking really good - one of their goals being to discourage these larger fights. My one complaint is that it's urgently needed and keeps getting delayed.

    What of Logistics though? They don't even appear on the radar and have been gradually moving in the wrong direction for some time.

    Currently, organized gameplay typically devolves into juggling base defense timers - teleporting your entire force, sometimes multiple platoons, and overwhelming the attackers so fast, wiping out all their spawns, that you can redeploy and move back to your old front before the enemy have capped anything. So why bother splitting up your forces and having relatively even fights in each lane?

    • Keep in mind that attacking is more difficult than defending, it takes time to move to attack a base and it takes time to cap a base; whereas redeploy takes no appreciable time and overwhelming numbers make for completely unchallenged fights.
    • Transports take resources, time to move out and (before the changes) time to load up; whereas redeploy is instant and safe.
    • A lack of logistics sacrifices a whole load of vehicle combat between bases, escort gameplay and fighting for control over advantageous terrain. Why make large maps and then barely use them?

    It's just horrible on so many levels.

    Apart from fixing the "large population + large amount of force multipliers" issue, the resource revamp goes a step further and begins to bring us that all important meta-game by creating secondary objectives. These are in the form of ferrying resources from collection points to bases via vehicles. Each empire will have new targets to weaken the enemy and new assets to protect, creating vehicle based, escort gameplay.

    That's awesome! That's the sort of thing people have been asking for since release. Not just some new weapons or implants or whatever.

    Now, my question is why shouldn't this extend to players? Transportation is even more crucial than resources. Denying the enemy their logistics and protecting your own would encourage almost exactly the same gameplay. Suddenly, even more meta that seamlessly fits.

    No one is suggesting this be done overnight. But it is a major issue that should be addressed along side the resource revamp, which in turn should have been top priority after optimization.

    Here's an example system, but I'm sure there are other ideas and there's always refinement to be had:

    -All bases should be spawnable (why not? Everyone redeploy hops anyway).
    -Individuals can redeploy on short timers.
    -The more people that redeploy somewhere, the longer the timer gets for everyone else.
    -Starting timers and gain rate go up with distance such that a squad is always better off flying, sometimes driving. Half a squad is usually the tipping point.
    -Squad beacons and Sunderers are subject to increasing timers if the player respawning is moving from another territory (to prevent people avoiding the system). They continue to function the same for anyone in the territory or within a short distance (in case you're fighting near the border).

    As for helping the casual player, don't forget that people logging in would have access to instant action. There's also the PS1 HART system to look to for mechanics.
    • Up x 51
  2. tekknej

    i would love it if they'd left the option of spawning at any sundy, but totally removed the base spawns. these at least could be killed and require player effort to maintain. would also be interesting to see a total wipe of front-line and defensive sundies where all the faction has to spawn at the warpgate and reestablish everything :3
    • Up x 5
  3. Key Pusher

    Planetside 2 is now Call of Planetside. Forget new content, Sony make hats, cosmetics and implants now because they think we're all *******.
    • Up x 6
  4. NC supporter

    We got to view this from SOE's stance. This game needs to attract a wider audience and that gives them a bigger chance of revenue. A game that only has 10 players can never be better than a game with 100 players from a financial stance. The game with 10 players is very specialized and only attracts so many people. This means there is a lesser chance of revenue. While a game with 100 players is better because it is a Jack of all trades and it suits everyones taste in what they want. This means more revenue so I think conformity might be a good idea in some respects. The game still has unique factors but can't be the odd dog out of the bunch in today's gaming market. If you would like to see what I mean watch TheGameTheorists video talking about Innovation in games on youtube. They resolve that very comformist games like COD make more money than Innovative games like Ocarina of Time financially.
    • Up x 1
  5. UberBonisseur




    This could be the EVE of the FPS genre, a financially and critically successful "niche" game, but you've got to consolidate the niche and be the best of your kind, not chase after the competition...
    • Up x 11
  6. NC supporter

    Uber I have yet to hear one person talk about EVE constantly. They may have been like the best and most innovative but it hasn't aged well. They tried to get in more players with Dust 514 but failed. Also guys before responding watch that video on youtube from TheGameTheorists on innovation in games.
  7. z1967

    Team Fortresside 2*
    • Up x 1
  8. Phyr

    If people are just going to redeploy hope to the fight they want, why not cut out the middle man and save everyone the trouble.
    • Up x 4
  9. Raka Maru

    When I'm bored, let me explain my gameplay in PS2...

    1. I login all my alts to get my daily certs.
    2. I login to my main.
    3. I find a base that's about to get capped and deploy there.
    4. I put down a motion detector next to the fight, until I reach the enemy spawn room.
    5. After the cap I redeploy, wait for a sunderer to park where I want to go next.
    6. Repeat step 3 - 5.
    This is what happens when you take out logistics.
    • Up x 4
  10. LibertyRevolution

    They made flashes cost 100 resources.
    I don't like walking.
    I should be able to spawn at any faction owned spawn point.

    Right now it is redeploy, redeploy, redeploy, redeploy, redeploy, ok I'm at the battle... why make the players do this??

    You want to play a logistics simulator? I sure the hell don't.
    You are the same people that drive MBT from the warpgate on esamir to attack bases that are completely walled off to vehicles..
    • Up x 4
  11. doombro

    In beta and early launch, we actually had this, in the form of galaxy pilots who would pretty much exclusively play as a ferry. They would land in a visible location in the warpgate, announce their destination and time of departure, and some of them even put various forms of entertainment in prox chat in-flight. It was cool as hell to have that sort of thing. It greatly added to the sense of scale, and it made the game all the more exciting. It was definitely one of the things that got me hooked into the game.

    But they never got rewarded for it. It was a completely thankless job, and still is today, if anyone still does it, for whatever reason. Warpgates are ghost towns. And now, the suits seem to be deciding not just that player-driven logistics are bad, but that logistics to begin with are bad. Perhaps even player-driven game mechanics in general. Hard to believe it, but, darker times ahead for this game. I still love my galaxy though. I just wish it got some love from the devs. Of course, even if we got the galaxy update tomorrow, it would just be a new gun or two and a really bad ability, maybe an overbuff. Nothing to actually make the vehicle more fun.
    • Up x 17
  12. Tuco

    short version: object persistence. Nanites are the total opposite, and it's written into the lore of Planetside. Give it up.
  13. Tuco

    maybe if it didn't take 2 years of grinding to get into PVP, and your'e always still behind in skills no matter how long you try, they'd get more.
  14. vsae

    Nobody likes driving and just hops from outpost to outpost because driving sucks in this game. If only we had better traction for transport so we could traverse rough terrain, but no enjoy you half a meter layer of butter and slide uncontrollably at every bump.
    • Up x 5
  15. FigM

    I also noticed this and it bothers me.
    Same with adding Lightnings to be spawnable everywhere.

    Game keeps moving in wrong direction. I'm getting sick of complaining, everything we say is useless, they don't listen, they don't reason. It's hopeless
    • Up x 2
  16. Bl4ckVoid

    The problem is that travelling is just way too risky and bad.

    Mine guard does nothing against mines on the flash.
    Fighting from the flash does not work (unless wraith flash).
    Liberators and ESF are patroling low pop zones for easy kills.
    Sunderers and even tanks die horribly fast to Libs and C4.
    Vehicle physics was coded by someone who got F grades in physics. It is all ice everywhere and the vehicles have zero mass. Driving and flying are both horrible in PS2 and on a level found in an arcade game of the 80s.

    I gave up on pulling vehicles and only use redeploy. Sorry, it makes zero sense to pull a vehicle and grant the enemy free certs.

    Yes, the game is being reduced to team deathmatch with the map not used at all. On top of this, the lattice system is starting to bite back, prime time Indar is pretty much unplayable now, because it is a die in 2 seconds experience. I just do not go there anymore, too many snipers and vehicles.
    • Up x 3
  17. Alarox

    There's an extremely simple compromise.

    Make spawning consistent but limited. Like, you can only spawn in at the bases you're current at, adjacent to you via lattice, and only major bases (amp/tech/bio).
    • Up x 2
  18. Bl4ckVoid

    Eve sux really bad, worst MMO I have ever played. Such a bad and clunky interface I do not understand how some people tolerate this. There are windows on a game interface with FOCUS, so if you press a key with the right window not in focus, nothing happens. ROFL. It should be teached as an example how NOT to do it.
  19. Bl4ckVoid

    Yeah, so getting to a fight will involve a long trek to vehicle terminal, then driving to fight. EPIC FAIL, people want to play and not travel. For driving, there are pretty good games out there, much better than PS2.

    I am not suggesting a solution, because I do not have one, but the large map is not utilized as of now.
  20. Hoki

    This is the weakest logic I've seen on this forum, no pun intended.

    There is plenty of logistics, and where you can deploy right now is anything but logical, because the lattice links are illogical, and if you parked a sundy over an invisible line you suddenly can't spawn there.

    So suck it up OP, I'm so sorry you don 't approve but it was the right decision.

    And there is still plenty of logistics especially concerning vehicle ammo.