Who really are the 'good guys' in PS2?

IMO PlanetSide lore is mid 80s in origin. I'd say TR is America in industrious and economical decline being pushed out by the NC (Japanese, modern day Chinese) and trying desperately to avoid complete foreign industrious take over. VS are just weirdos and seem crow barred in.

Didn't you notice the VS fanatism? when I first read the lore I was like wow, VS sounds like the kind of thing I like, tech, progress, until I read the part of fanatism, and how they considered everyone inferior, it's like space *****, they want to cull the weak a purge the non vanu for the shake of a superior race that must evolve at all cost, even if that cost is the genocide of NC and TR.

I take back what I said a couple posts back... did some more research.

To be honest, the TR are the "good guys".

The NC's reason for fighting is goofy. We were contracted to build a new civilization (Civilians looking for a new one were mixed in) and as soon as the portal behind us closed we were like "Yeah so all those contracts are null, right?" And the TR are like"n-no?" and so we went to War.

The vanu's reason is just stupid. They didn't need to start a war, could have just been researchers or something.


TR isn't a good group, they're 'bad' by today's standards and FORCED peace. But in this war, they're basically the good guys who just want things to go back to being normal.

TR are actively stopping/destroying Vanu research in fear they won't be able to control the population, Vanu wish for open source style research. NC just declared war on the vanu so they too are forced to fight

I don't play the game for the lore, if I did I would have joined Vanu a long time ago.

Well, let's see. It's either government by Blackwater or by Scientologists... who want to rip my society and my DNA apart with or without my consent, respectively... or by a military force that has cut-and-dried rules and regulations and at least hews to the *ideal* of democratic rule. It's also the only faction with the word 'Republic' in it.

As a good social-liberal Democrat, I know damn well who I'd be fighting for if I were suddenly transported to Auraxis. Gimme Loyalty Until Death and a cheeseburger and a minigun, and I'm good to go.

"In the grim darkness of the future....There is only war." No idea why, that reminded me of this.

Actually... ancient, tech oriented civilization that.... ascended to a higher... plain... of existence...

Know what would be really interesting? If this was a Necron tomb world.

Would make one hell of an event.
"And suddenly, the crown splits open, unveiling a monolith, from which swarm the necron hordes, and only together do the factions stand a chance of stopping the living machines. Squads must be wiped out or they will simply resurrect."

"Meanwhile, in the frozen wastes of Esamir, from beneath the lone tech plant, a monolith melts its way to the surface, while on Amerish, the mountain into which Raven's Landing is set explodes in necron activity."

"Across all three continents, in the various archaeological dig sites, Terran, VS, or NC (depending on who owns the site in question) scientists work frantically to unearth and replicate weapons of old.

J908 impact grants access to an ancient, massive railgun (the only effective anti-monolith weapon), the excavation site grants ancient powered armor tech, reinforcing MAX units. The Fortress grants advanced armor to its owner, and the vanu archives promises massively advanced air units."

etc etc etc.

How's THAT for a fourth empire?!

I figure each is a given moral philosophy taken to the extreme.
TR= Utilitarianism
NC= Objectivism
VS= transhumanism

The games intro describes them as-

TR - oppressive regime
VS - technological cultists
NC - freedom fighters

Seems a pretty easy choice to me. NC are basically the rebels from Star Wars. TR, you're a Storm Trooper basically (probably explains why you can't shoot anything ) . If you're VS, you like purple spandex.

No doubt about it...TR are the good guys.

The reason is simple.

They were the government chosen by the people, they were doing ground breaking tech.........found auraxis etc

NC are pretty much corporation greed.....They see how TR treats the people good so they decide to break off and hope to slave the poor like corporatist fascist.

VS are messing with alien tech without knowing crap.....Playing with a dangerous game yet their Vanu tech is as weak as human tech LMFAO.....

The whole motto of "Evolve or die" kinda makes me question this.

TR took over. They lead man into a golden age, but they weren't chosen.

NC are being taken advantage of by corporations, but they're not really run by them. Considering they're not above straight up looting the Corporations if they need to,... Should they win the war, I don't think they'll let themselves be pawns.


The reason the VS aren't winning with their tech is fairly simple:
The TR use the oldest Tech (Historical gear often times if you read the descriptions of things like the pistols), but have a lot of organization and military training, letting them hold their own in the war.

NC have slightly better weapons/gear because they're constantly buying/looting new and shiny things from corporations. Their guns are magnetically accelerated for (theoretically) faster/stronger guns. They're not super organized, but they have a common cause and a lot of passion in the war and that helps them adapt and learn.

Vanu mostly consist of researchers and scientist without major amounts of military training (Atleast on a war level). They don't have the organization or passion the others do, but the advanced Tech they use lets them make up for that.


This is of course lore wise. Gameplay wise no faction can totally win, so..

There isn't meant to be any "bad" or "good" faction. It's realistic in that they're all different shades of grey. TR do want order and peace, but they're highly oppressive. NC do want freedom, but they're fraught with corrupt mercenaries and greedy corporations backing them. VS do want to help the human race progress and ascend, but they're fanatical and seem to have lost some of their humanity in the process.

This has been one of the major concerns with transhumanism, and one I personally have as well, that it harbours within its philosophy a spectre of eugenics and coercive social Darwinism. That it contains what some call, not I because I find the term too PC and far too reeking of post-modernism, an ableist bias.

That inherent in transhumanist desires to improve and forcibly evolve humanity are concepts of a "master race", of "genetic discrimination", and other such notions. These I think are valid concerns, and the Vanu in PS2 seem to personify such a brand of transhumanism that many people such as myself fear.

Sorry again for going too far down the rabbit hole, like I said before in this thread, philosophy is what I waste my life on

Sorry for taking a while to get back to your post, I hope you will not consider it hollow if I return the compliment you paid me. This is a very interesting read as well.

I agree with you, in the universe of PS2 with rebirthing technology humanity has already overcome its final and ultimate limitation and I think in game would certainly be deserving of the title 'post-human' regardless of the faction.

For an eloquent rebuttal to your points about how we already alter our "natural bodies" I would suggest you read Jurgen Habermas' The Future of Human Nature, if you haven't already. It is a great read, and makes some very good points, I think he is really on point when he elucidates on the dramatic dangers to the "human species ethic" that transhumanism poses. And really when talking on the subject of eugenics and its dangers I do not think there are many people more qualified to talk than a German.

As for your point about the "limitless" resources of space surely such a situation would cripple the capitalist argument, without any scarcity of resources to inform markets of demand and the resulting limitless supply, capitalist systems would fall - I would think anyway when presented with such a cornucopia.

But hey really just replying to say thank you, and that I enjoyed reading your post as well.

Its not grimdark enough. Weapons are too small and practical, no one has big enough shoulderpads.
Plus decals and cosmetics are all well and good, but what you really want to cover your gear, vehicles and armour with are spikes and skulls. And skulls on spikes.

Has anyone noticed how NS produces ammo packs that supply the ENEMY TOO? They seem more and more evil every day

I'm a biologist, and I don't think eugenics as something bad, in fact it has been used and is still used for animals and plants, non scientists usually will not understand this, because of the ***** (I don't know why they censor this word) the word eugenics gained infamy (that why biologists use artificial selection), I personally think people should voluntary help humanity evolve into something better, I mean for example, I have an hereditary genetic disorder, and I don't want to have children so my condition will not pass to future generations.

But forcing evolution by killing others and thinking they are the master race is pretty much stupid, Hitler for example though Germans were the master race, you know tall, blonde, blue eyes, and Hitler was short, had brown eyes, black hair and Parkinson, that's stupid.

That's why Vanu remind me to Space *****.

As I say people should voluntary chose to pass or not to pass their genes depending on what they feel is the right thing to do.

Oh I agree voluntarily eugenics has a lot going for it, I mean before I have children both myself and my partner (as well as our surrogate) will go through genetic testing in order to ensure - like you - that we are not passing on any dangerous hereditary diseases. But as I said it is the spectre of "coercive" eugenics that transhumanism seems to harbour that causes much concern.

But I do fully admit bioethics isn't my specific area of expertise, I tend towards political philosophy more and so will happily defer to your expertise.

I just want to say that While the Vanu have undertones of coercive fanaticism (and the fact that all empires do) it has been established in lore that the VS were perfectly happy with doing their own research etc until otuside interference hindered it. TR obstructed research and NC declared war, thus VS are in battle to rid impeding opposition in order to continue research.

Thing is, we don't know how the existing civilian centres, if they have any, operate. Is a VS settlement all culty with mandatory sermons or whatever negative stereotype you want or are there those that may not have augmented themselves, or altered themselves but just use the technology granted to them. We do not know the degree of tolerance for non-participating people (Does everyone have to be a transhumanist or are you accepted as long as you don't obstruct progress?)

Those who portray the VS as villains will opt for the former, a borg-like entity. Others may see a more peaceful civilization where those who seek to pursue "enlightenment" can do so at their own pace.

The same can be said for all empires. Are the TR facist Germany or Singapore (a perfectly fine dictatorship)? Are the NC like an illuminati conspiracy theory's wet dream where corporations are in control, forcing the public will like puppets or are the NC like an idealized America/Canada/self-purported free governing body?


Without all the facts we are allowed to create our own delusions about our own factions. I believe that if the VS did find a way to ascend to a higher plane of existence like they believed the Vanu actually did, they'd just do it and let the TR and NC squabble and destroy themselves. Primarily because they are in this war because their research is slowing to a crawl and the war is damaging and destroying the precious artefacts required for further understanding (there is a reason we don't like it when any faction tries to take away the Vanu archives from us on Indar ) So if their research is somehow completed during the war, there would be no need for further combat.

As for the eugenics/social darwinist philosophy which comes up, which is admittedly the most uncomfortable part of being VS (much like anarchy or facism is for the NC and TR) it can be spun as actually overcoming evolution. Eugenics of the past, especially those concerning arian master races and the like were born of misinterpreting Darwin's theory.

What they didn't understand was that "Fitness" is determined by the environment, the environment is never stagnant and yet they wish to instil a single, unchanging, unevolving, stagnant genotype which, upon any dramatic environmental change, may not survive as well.

Those who wish to see the VS in a positive light would say that what they fight for is to escape the evolutionary cycle, to finally do away with genetic predetermination, ascension from nature's grasp. It is the great equalizer.