Who else wants capture the flag?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AuricStarSand, Apr 25, 2022.

  1. AuricStarSand

    Maybe it doesn't go well with lore, tho this isn't a lore heavy game anyways. I'd like capture the flag or other game modes. Even deathmatch rules for gaining region. Or hacking a objective 1st faction to do so wins region.

    Point holds are like non stop King of the Hill. Good to mix things or test other modes too.
    It's been talked about briefly before. Yet wasn't a thread just for this.

    Harasser main so ye. Flag runner
    • Up x 2
  2. Mechwolf

    I could definitely see a deathmatch variant working, but a CTF variant would be a lot of work, and trying to make it not obnoxious could be a problem, either something about the "CTF bases" would be in the chat, or there would be constant pinging on the map as to who has the flag. Not to mention the way you're talking about it, you would have to have two corresponding bases that are both linked through the CTF mechanic, but in order for that to work, one of them would have to be initially captured through the base timer mechanic, and then the second base would either be taken via base timer mechanic OR CTF mechanic.
  3. Demigan

    PS2 could have a solid CTF gameplay. You can even let bases switch between normal and CTF capture after each continent lock.

    From a game design perspective CTF is simple. You spawn at A, move to B where the flag is and take it to C where you capture it. C is usually also your spawn but it does not have to be.

    Add a few simple rules for QOL:
    - Capturing the flag will only start the timer (if enough captured).
    - exact flag location isnt shown, just the general position. so players can still use a little bit of stealth.
    - some limits on where the flag can be carried, like not too long in painfields or out of the base area.
    - to prevent stalling or griefers, if the flag remains in one person's hands but isnt scored, a second flag will spawn (and upon scoring the remaining disappears).
    - since its too hard to give both sides a flag, only defenders have a flag.

    A is the Sunderer
    B is the point
    C is the Sunderer again.

    So you capture the point at the Sunderer and start the timer. You can have a few gameplay balance rules: the Sunderer has to be deployed and nearby to start a timer (its too hard for defenders to clear vehicles in time)

    I'll ignore A for the next examples:

    B is the point
    C is a place on the other side of the base

    B is close to the defender spawn
    C is the point, multiple flags provided at B if there are multiple points (defenders bring the flags back to their starting point to bring the cap down again)

    B is close to the defender spawn
    C is the point, only one flag is provided at B and you have to flip each point individually with the same flag (and the defenders have to unflip it with that flag).

    The "CTF" of PS1 should be avoided. The moment the flag is out of the base and among the vehicles the defenders have virtually no way to really destroy the enemy vehicles and recapture the flag (if they could, they would already have been the attackers and not the defenders).
    • Up x 1
  4. FLHuk

    Yes, as long as the flag carrier becomes a flying max with aimbot!
  5. OpolE

    I think you mean LLU from Planetside 1.

    How about just keep asking for Planetside 1 metagame to take and control and hold continents. NO BS SHUTTING AND CLOSING after a timer......
  6. Demigan

    PS2 isnt build to have a fun and fair LLU experience. The moment the LLU leaves the bases's walls the defenders will rarely be able to retrieve it. In PS2 the attackers are almost guaranteed to have vehicle superiority which they need to place the Sunderer in the first place, and infantry barely has the AV to hold them off let alone destroy them and pursue the LLU.
  7. Erendil

    That's not how PS1's LLU mechanic worked. Defenders didn't have to go out and retrieve the LLU "flag" if it left their base.

    Once the attackers hacked the base's Control Console (CC), they had 15 minutes to grab the LLU that spawned from the LLU terminal in another part of the base and bring it back to their own base's CC.

    If defenders either resecured the CC, or forced the 15-minute timer to run out by stopping attackers from reaching the LLU and/or killing any LLU carriers, the LLU simply disappeared wherever it was, and attackers would have to hack the CC again to generate another LLU.

    To make things easier on the defenders, a few restrictions were placed on LLU carriers:
    • MAXes couldn't grab the LLU
    • Cloakers couldn't cloak while carrying it
    • The LLU carrier showed up on the cont map and minimap, and emitted a yellow flashing light so it was obvious who had it
    • The LLU carrier could only enter the passenger/gunner seats of ground vehicles, so no driving yourself and no flying at all
    • Any vehicle carrying an LLU could only drive at ~2/3 top speed

    The main purpose of LLU gameplay was to encourage more open field battles, and it worked well. The slow movement speed of LLU-laiden vehicles meant that defenders often had time to pull fast vehicles (usually aircraft) from another base to chase down the LLU in an attempt to kill the carrier, and then camp the LLU in the field until either the base defenders resecured the CC or the timer ran out.

    It was a beautiful mechanic and I think it'd work pretty well in PS2 with some modifications. The only major hurdle I can think of offhand for PS2 is the Pocket OS. But that IMO needs to be massively restricted anyway.
    • Up x 2
  8. Demigan

    Actually this is exactly my point. The moment that LLU leaves the base its basically game over for the defenders. PS2 has too many area's that limit vehicle movement (LLU's would never work anywhere on Hossin for example). The only really viable base to pull from would be the base itself, which you cant until you've cleared most of the enemy vehicles and infantry presence. Only Northern Indar and Esamir would really be open enough for attacks from other bases to work.

    For the LLU to work the defenders need a way to safely spawn vehicles in a place where they can simultaneously help push the attackers but are still protected enough that they can wait for reinforcements. For example by placing vehicle pads in the middle of a base somehow and letting the infantry provide cover against vehicle attacks.
    Alternatives might include static FOB's that players can capture for a small spawn and vehicle pad, so a single defender escaping the base can open up a new avenue of vehicle attack and make it harder to predict where the vehicles might spawn from.
    Or a timer that players can click to join, and once the timer reaches its end anyone dead/redeployed (and joined) will be mass-spawned in ANVIL's. The positions chosen beforehand within the base area by the players themselves and visible so players can gather in groups and not be overwhelmed.

    Having aircraft be the main counter to LLU carriers is also a bad idea until the A2G versus G2A game is finally fixed, as well as the one-trick-pony skillset that ESF is holed up in so multiple flight techniques become valuable. Also other aircraft need to be able to do air superiority, having one aircraft dominate the rest isnt good.
  9. Erendil

    No it's not. Re-read my post. All the defenders would need to do is flip the point and the LLU goes poof and disappears.

    Or, they can defend the LLU terminal room and prevent the attackers from grabbing the LLU in the first place until the timer runs out. And if the attackers are able to grab the LLU, the defenders can further delay the LLU run by pulling fast vehicles from a nearby base, intercepting it enroute, and camping it out in the field for the remainder of the timer.

    Not at all true. There are plenty of places where the LLU mechanic would work just fine, even on Hossin. Hell, it worked on Ceryshen in PS1, which had terrain just as formidable as PS2's Hossin.

    Sure there are areas where terrain interferes too much for ground vehicles. But there are many other areas where its a straight shot from base to base. And aircraft would largely not care about terrain.

    I mean it's not like every base would be converted to the LLU mechanic.

    That's why you redeploy and pull them from a nearby base. So you can circumvent the attacking force, intercept the LLU enroute, and camp it long enough either for the timer to run out or for the defenders back at the base to flip the point.

    Why? The attacking force can bring aircraft to escort the LLU carrier even easier than the defenders could pull aircraft to intercept it. And, if you use, say, a Ranger Harasser or dual-Ranger Sundy to drive the LLU carrier, intercepting aircraft would have a tougher time stopping it. Attackers can also have other AA ground vehicles escorting the LLU vehicle as well.
  10. Demigan

    Okay let me amend my statement:
    It would not offer enough CTF elements, as the defenders will have to focus on retaking the point rather than beating their face against vehicles. Which once again does not help vehicle vs vehicle fights.

    And again: aircraft need to be balanced first for any game mechanic to rely on them being a counter.
  11. Erendil

    Yes, it does encourage vehicle fights since defenders can redeploy to a nearby base and pull vehicles to intercept the LLU carrier enroute to their own base out in the field, and attackers can have their vehicles escort the LLU carrier and fight off intercepting vehicles.

    But you're correct that it's missing some features of conventional CTF. So that's definitely a valid complaint if you're trying to faithfully recreate conventional CTF's back-and-forth tug of war gameplay.

    And like I replied before, no they don't, because the attackers can use AA Harrasers and Sundys to escort the LLU carrier, and both factions can bring aircraft to bear to fight over the LLU while its enroute. We'll just have to agree to disagree here.