Who do I talk to about accurate ADS?

I'm making a separate thread on this issue since the most popular one right now is titled "Who do I talk to about crosshair overlays" (found here: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...alk-to-about-crosshair-overlays.145254/page-5) and what I see as the worthwhile part of the subject (the BS inaccuracy of ADS compared to hipfire with all its crutches) is getting lost amidst whether tape+marker = cheating.

Let me first say, I could care less whether tape+marker = cheating so if that is what you want to discuss then please post on the thread pasted above.

The issue as I see it is as follows:

When hipfiring (a terribly inaccurate way to fire a weapon IRL) you are given 1) 100% accurate crosshair 100% of the time that always points towards the center of the screen and thus the center of the COF (COF is always center screen regardless of what the graphics of your gun may indicate), 2) 100% accurate information regarding the size of the COF, 3) easymode "shoot when this turns red" lol reticle, 4) the fastest way to move and shoot (lets not underestimate how much mobility means in any FPS let alone a MMO FPS).

When ADS (the most accurate way to fire a weapon IRL) you are given 1) a HUGE movement penalty (though some factions have it better than others here), 2) no information on the size of the COF, 3) no easymode "shoot when this turns red" nonsense, 4) graphics that obscure the center of the screen and thus the center of the COF and where you are actually aiming, and finally 5) misleading crosshairs that do not align with the center of the COF.

The game is already biased as hell towards CQC spray and pray without this nonsense. Moreover, there is a faction out there that is more or less specifically designed to excel at CQC spray and pray.

I would like to see accurate ADS in PS2. In the absence of accurate ADS in PS2 I would like to see hipfire changed so that 1) it is also misleading regarding where the center of the COF resides, 2) no longer displays information regarding the size of the COF, 3) no longer has the easy mode "shoot when this turns red" nonsense.

Why would they put such a huge movement penalty on ADS if you get nothing from it?

Why do some scopes provide a truly accurate aiming system when ADS (irnv and long range sniper rifle scopes) when others do not?

This affects LA more than any other class because with the irnv you are not always obscuring your view with irrelevant and meaningless graphics (since you are always firing at the center of the screen when you pull the trigger- how can this happen when the gun graphic is point up your nose?).

The way things are now just makes the game feel like cheap garbage. Any FPS should put a fair emphasis on the basic FPS mechanics and so far PS2 has a terrible track record (flinch anyone?).

Bottom line, hipfiring should be a terribly inaccurate way to shoot a firearm and ADS should provide the best, most accurate information regarding aiming.

Call Of Battleside 2

?

Nevermind :S
I think hipfire is pretty unreliable compared to ADS already

not if you're Vanu!

As I see it, that is also part of the issue- some weapons and factions tend to have better hipfire than others so this issue with ADS really has a differential impact.

For instance, consider the ACX-11, it is garbage at hipfire and therefore not only do you have to manage the other issues that favor hipfire CQC but you also have to contend with the fact that the only decent way to use the weapon is ADS and ADS mechanics are also garbage.

They should remove ADS and implement a default zoom.

I think this is what the OP is getting after. Zoom would have no movement penalty and you wouldn't have to deal with vision obscured by a scope.

I really hope they do change it, to how it should actually work (scopes are zeroed in...). Try strafing in VR and shooting at the dummies. The projectiles are actually coming slightly off center of the scope, behind on the trailing end. Its not because of bullet travel time and your movement speed (unless using slugs from a very slow m/s shotgun).

A while back they did a pass on vehicles and made all projectiles come from center of camera. An easy fix for really bad vehicle design, which i was okay with. But it either seemed that small arms (riffles, pistols, etc) were also changed with it or more people, including myself, noticed that it was effecting all weapons and not just ones outlined in the patch notes.

For vehicles, their reticles were always painted on the center of screen. There is no camera shake from explosions, jumping or anything else that can change where reticle is pointed and projectile is coming from. With infantry you do have a disconnect.

I am not against mechanics such as concussion grenades, flash grenades or even a large nearby explosion throwing your aim off for a split second or two. Those are all fine and dandy, they give some tactical elements with equipment choices to players. But having aim be off while simply strafing to the left or right is, as many have commented on the subject, just wrong as a mechanic.


Its not a huge game breaking issue, but it something that can turn the milk sour over time especially to avid FPS players who are looking for solid mechanics.

I can't help but wonder if quite a bit of the hit detection vs. aiming is directly related to a $700 rig vs. a $1500 rig...ie; the better your computer's FPS, the better your chance of surviving a firefight.

Would that be considered "pay to win"?

I've shot at a lot of Bad Guys and can't seem to kill them...but promptly fall down to "Ugh..Ugh....you are dead".

Is that related to my 30-40 FPS vs. my opponent's 60+ FPS? Is it because by the time I fire (and register) 4 shots, my opponent has fired (and registered) 8 or more times...resulting in the server awarding my opponent victory, even though I fired first?

How exactly does that work?

Not exactly, I think the movement penalty makes perfect sense- you cannot move rapidly while ADS and keep a decent sight picture.

If the scope zooms then you have a smaller FOV by definition but yes I would appreciate if the graphics of weapon did not obscure where the weapon is actually firing because that is just nonsense- as it is now, bullets fly out of the weapon from all kinds of places (depending on your movement they may be coming from the bottom of the magazine for instance).

All I want is when I ADS that the sight is actually aiming to the center of the COF (like the irnv scope, all hipfiring and the long range sniper rifles).

True, some of the larger zoom scopes do make me wonder why the scope and gun are still in the FOV considering that you would want to be so close to the scope that the bulk of the FOV would be inside, not outside, the scope.

No, I do not think so- it has been this was since the beginning and I think the reason why is that the people who do the physics are not the same as those who do the graphics.

From a coding perspective it is really easy to ignore that there is an actual character and weapon and instead just say every projectile is launched from the center of the characters chest and is always centered on center screen. Not a real big deal (though hardly ideal from a realism and immersive gameplay experience) until the graphics guys come along and put all these essentially meaningless graphics in the game that have only a weak relationship to the physics at best.

Vehicles, turrets and hipfire always have the reticle dead center screen and thus at the center of the COF.

This last point is exactly the issue. Since the beginning I felt like the FPS mechanics were "loose" or "squishy" and when I questioned why I had more difficulty aiming in PS2 than other FPS I chalked it up to some COF value or clientside issue. When I saw video evidence of this effect and then tried for myself I felt like an idiot- gun and sight appear to move to the left but the center of the COF is still the center of the screen.

Ever since I have struggled to really enjoy my playtime as I prefer more of a sharpshooter playstyle and that playstyle is effectively broken in PS2 due not only to this particular garbage but a lot of other factors that result in the game heavily favoring CQC spray and pray that I do not really enjoy.

This whole discussion is moot. Everything about how guns work in video games is completely false and created purely to create a bit of balance between players with excellent aim and players without. IRL there is no such thing as "bloom" or "cone of fire" if your gun is sighted in correctly the bullet goes where the crosshair is pointed every time you pull the trigger. COF was simply added in because recoil is so easy to control that if you didn't have a bit of randomness to ADS accuracy then players who had good aim and recoil management could simply mow down average players with outrageous ease at extreme range.

PS2 does shooting mechanics that same as any other shooter, it's the accepted standard and it works quite well. Even VS weapons aren't very good at hipfire beyond 10-20m unless your opponent has abysmal aim. And besides, if you want to talk about real life, there are people in real life who can shoot apples and smaller items from 15-20m while "hipfiring".

But again, talking about how aiming down sights is better in real life than hipfiring isn't a valid reason because, bullet spread, etc is completely arbitrary and doesn't exist in real life. This is the way FPS's work, it works well, learn when do hipfire and when to ADS and you'll be fine. Besides, every faction has weapons that are good at hipfiring, if you're in close quarters, use one of those, problem solved.

It has very little to do with your FPS. It has to do with a thing called latency. Since everything is processed clientside and there is a little bit of lag between where people are in space and where you see them, people can start shooting you milliseconds before you actually know about it.

If I jump around the corner and start shooting, I'm dealing damage to you right away on my screen. However, you don't know I'm dealing you damage or even that I'm there until my computer sends the information to the server and the server routes that data to you. Since my damage is calculated on my computer I'm damaging you while that information is being sent to you. A bad FPS COULD compound this issue since your screen would be refreshing slower and therefore relaying the information about what's going on around you slower.

Hopefully that wasn't too complicated of an answer?

Well... part of this may be due to FPS (although 30-40 should be plenty) but I think what you are experiencing may have more to do with the lag introduced by clientside serving. Search the forums because there are some great videos explaining and showing this in detail but essentially everyone playing PS2 is looking at what happened about .2 seconds or so ago (about the TTK for many weapons in CQC). What this means is that some people know how to use this to their advantage (or are better at doing so) and sometimes this "de-sync" can be large enough that when it looks like an enemy has their back to you they are actually already looking at you and shooting you in the face.

Have fun trying to find a way around that- of course, the real question becomes where the line between using clientside detection to your advantage and exploiting an unintended consequence of clientside detection resides.

If, however, you are wondering why you have your sights on a target but the projectiles are going elsewhere then yes that is probably the garbage ADS mechanics (well, really this is an issue of there being a big disconnect between the graphics and the actual mechanics).

I just brought that specific point because no one really talked about projectiles not coming from barrels until that patch hit and changed it for that section of weaponry. Actually until that video showed it and was spread across Reddit/PSU/here, it was just "gunplay feels sloppy... but i dont know why". No one really could give a definitive answer.

Not exactly, there are all kinds of variables that impact where a projectile will travel- from differences in wind pressure/resistance to minor differences in grain count and the temperature of the barrel and small imperfections in the jacket. I always thought that this is what COF was intended to represent.

Plus, COF is added to every weapon and is there during hipfire as well, ADS just lessens the amount of COF.

Although, I do think that "bloom" is just there to try and simulate the difficulty of maintaining a stable platform while fully automatic.

Do you know that PS2 does its FPS mechanics the same as other shooters or are you just saying this? I have trouble believing this is the case considering that we had a completely nonsense flinch mechanic through release and 4+ months later that not only completely threw balance out the window from a weapons and faction perspective but any smart 10 year old could tell you that was bogus.

Just because bloom and COF may not exist IRL the same as in the game does not mean that hipfire should be given every crutch under the sun when it comes to aiming whereas ADS should be complete trash.

Also, the trick, really, is that if someone is so far away that you feel the need to ADS you are probably better off just getting into cover and waiting for them to get into CQC range. I will not go into it in detail here but there are all kinds of reasons why this game is heavily biased towards CQC hipfire spray and pray.

People say things like "if your are in CQC then equip the right weapon" when it is more like "if you have this weapon then try to get into CQC, if you have that weapon then try not to" because it is not like you can switch weapons on the fly. Besides, like I said, this game is heavily biased towards CQC (that is partly why people had such problems with the shotguns because pretty much every weapon is meh outside CQC except the sniper rifles).

at less than 100 yards, unless you're using complete **** for ammo there won't be more than maybe an inch difference in where your bullet lands compared to the last one assuming you're not using an a PDW designed only for close engagements.

It does its shooter mechanics VERY similarly to other FPS's. The flinch mechanic is no longer a way to say its different because it now functions like most other shooters. Yes, we all know that flinch was ********, it was changed.

Yes, I think that at some ranges hipfire is A LITTLE too accurate, but it's really not as big of an issue as people here seem to be making it out to be.

"Also, the trick, really, is that if someone is so far away that you feel the need to ADS you are probably better off just getting into cover and waiting for them to get into CQC range." I don't know how you play but that's just silly for how I do. This game has pretty accurate weapons ADS'ing and if you can control recoil even halfway competently it's not that hard to bring people down quickly at range. I actually prefer to engage at range over CQC because when hipfiring there is a certain measure of randomness in the battle. There's much less while ADS'ing.

But yes, you're 100% right on the fact that you should try to get into situations that benefit your weapon. If you like using a LMG with a foregrip and a 3.4x scope, the fight in tech plants or amp stations where there's lots of room between cover. Choose where you want to engage. It won't always work, but you can slant the odds heavily in your favor.

And, it is incredibly easy to equip the right weapon for the job. If you're in a heavy CQC fight then chances are you have a spawn point very near by since those kinds of fights don't last long without a stream of reinforcements. People had problems with the shotgun because the pump-actions were exponentially better than any other option when in a tower fight. Now that they've been brought back down there are many more options and even the default weapons can compete, albeit at a slight disadvantage.

Ok, aside from the NV/HS Scope, which ones offer accurate target feedback to the shooter?

All the "overlay" scopes- that is, all the scopes where the scope sight becomes your entire FOV (aside from the NV/HS the only ones are the long range sniper rifle only scopes.

And there I thought my aim was ever so slightly off... Thanks.

Client Side Hit Detection combined with lag.

On your screen, you see a guy kill you almost instantly, on his screen he's been filling you full of bullets for a full second.