When is VS max getting something..

Aegis is less situational than Lock-down, but I'm not sure it is actually "better" (Aegis is flawed in just so many way). It looks a lot better though. ZOE is a bit pants, and is likely the weakest of the 3 now, but then it was so riduclously good for so long.

Hi, all, wish all a good time. Had to post something after deleting.

Never see ZOEs since the nerf... Wait, some days ago a reckless vanu thought it might be a good idea to get a ZOE MAX in a fight I participated in. I saw the glowing MAX going down in a hail of bullets nearly instant.

What a useless ability.

Tried using zoe today, worked as AA.. that's about it, everyone else was actually chasing my max trying to get it killed in a 12-24 bio lab fight.

Then we had later today a alert fight at a NC base.. we where running away from scat maxes in 12-24 fight as every 2nd NC had it. Funny to say on mumble that I'm being chase by a NC max around the building, I just reply," Me too, at A lvl.." Got few of the unexperienced max users with my HA but BR95-100 NC max users.. blah might get 1 rocket in, but if they'r full health whats the point.

To clarify: Yes, I am mincing words, but the distinction is important. Massive dodging capabilities are what got the release version of the magrider nerfed through the floor.

Yes, being able to move is a defensive advantage. It is not a defensive statistic. Dodging a projectile is binary. It works, or it didnt. You take damage, or you don't. Moving faster is an advantage. ZOE does not allow for the dodging of rockets in most situations, unless you see it coming far in advance.

If you take a rocket to the face, and you have 50% mitigation, you take half damage. If you have 20% mitigation, you take 80% damage. These are defensive stats.

What's the deploy / undeploy of Lockdown these days... 1.5-3 seconds, give or take?
What's the forced uptime of ZOE, 15 seconds? A lockdown max flack max won't exactly laugh off a rocket, but he can undeploy and move away, I was talking about my own experiences with MAXes, yours may be different. In general, I get better performance out of lockdown due to it's predictability.

All I'm saying is "Lockdown has no defensive downside" is rediculous to say when its one and only downside is you can't friggin' move.

Yes, it would have been ridiculous if I had said that. I did not.

For additional clarification:

See my above definition of 'stats' ... YES, complete loss of the ability to move without undeploying is a defensive downside. It doesn't make you take more damage in the event you take a hit. That's all I meant here. It's a straight exchange - mobility for firing speed and reload speed. 1.5-3 seconds of time spend mobilizing is faster then 15 seconds of ZOE uptime.

Lockdown is a skill that rewards positioning, planning, and teamwork. When defending fixed positions, there's no ES MAX ability i'd rather have, the same is true for AA, provided it's used near supporting medics and engies.

Does it suck compared to what it could be? Sure. At least i've found uses for it. In the right circumstances, Lockdown can really shine.

I'd accept ZOE in it's current state if I could turn it off when I wanted, as it stands, it lowers mitigation and turns you into glowing target practice.

I pulled up my lockdown, then moved. Once healed up 75% I moved back to where I was and locked down again.

Just to be clear I was using lockdown.

I got C4'd, rocketted, etc.

Not a whole ton of focus fire because I was set up in a good spot and they couldn't bring enough guns to bear on me at a time (course, they would die within a second of showing me their ugly mug anyways)

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION.

It's all about locking down in the right spots. Lock down in the wrong spot and you will get effed.

I found a nice lil spot where an engy had his turret up right at the edge of a corner (I went just outside that) which let him repair me from safety, get tons of ammo points, and man his turret in between rocket attacks (bullets didn't do much since the enemy died so fast), there were also 3 LA's on the catwalk above my position so I knew I was safe from C4 fairies for the most part (though the enemy did clear them out and make 1 successful run on me... my Flak5 laughed off his 1 brick. He died and the team was replaced.) There was no good cover for the enemy to use in assaulting me from the front, and around the corner behind me was a heavy friendly traffic flow protecting my rear.

LOCATION.

not being able to move isn't a big deal so long as you get repairs.

Yeah and if ZOE rooted you to the spot for 15 seconds perhaps they'd be comparable. But it doesn't, so they're not.

Not while moving you weren't. I'm not saying Lockdown is bad it has it's time and place. It just ain't great either, the Pounders are really the key to slaughtering people at a chokepoint not Lockdown and Pounders are baller as hell.

I'm comparing the transition time. An ability being active, versus an ability not being active. It takes 1.5-3 seconds to transition out of lockdown. It takes 15 seconds (Or however long the timer has remaining) to transition out, it removes control of the ability from the MAX. You can get out of charge anytime you please, but the timer is still reset. If ZOE worked like that, i'd be fine with it. If this were the case, the ability would have a niche.

With ZOE maxed, it takes the same amount of bullets to down an infantry unit at point blank, the damage buff is negligible to the point of not factoring into ZOE's benefits.

Yes, Lockdown has it's time and place.

ZOE doesn't

That's the entire point of the thread.

Also, Lockdown makes the OP pounders even more OP. The reload time in lockdown is about the same as the RoF without Lockdown, and the RoF in Lockdown is practically a machine gun. (I exaggerate obviously, but it is disgustingly effective).

What happens when you take something effective and increase it's damage output by 40%?

Oh yeah, it becomes that much more effective.

I also used Lockdown to protect a bridge on Amerish, taking out tanks and Sundies on the far side which was a lot easier with the pounders reduced drop from being locked down (and barely my torso was exposed, and in between a couple of posts which, while limiting my field of fire, was more important in limiting enemy capable of shooting at me...)

I thoroughly enjoy LockDown.

ZOE? nope. If the dmg buff wasn't so limited in range and I could toggle it off/on like most abilities, I'd recert it.

Give it a 1-2 second transition time like lockdown if you have to. IDGAF, but current implementation is just dumb.

I'm only taking issue with the idea that Lockdown's downside isn't a defensive problem when being unable to move is kind of a defensive problem.

Phrasing it so only "Stats" count and movement isn't a stat is of course going to make ZOE seem terrible compared to Lockdown. And ZOE is pretty bad, but you don't need to pretend Lockdown is the same thing as ZOE but better to do that because they ain't the same thing.

The Z.O.E. change made all factions' Max Units ES abilities the most balanced it has ever been. The proof can be seen in any Biolab fight where NC or TR are fighting the VS.

ZOE is terrible compared to LockDown.

Meaningless and pointless dmg buff (saves 1 shot to kill an inf at point blank? lol k)...
Minor speed buff (still slower than inf in every way, and the MAX momentum change still prevents the ADAD from ZOE launch)
HUGE armor nerf
STUCK in this mode for 15 seconds.

compare
40% increase in RoF and reload
? increase in velocity and associated reduction of drop
Can't move in mode
2 second transition time can be initiated at any time.


See the difference?

Teamwork and positiong can largely mitigate the Lock Down negative.

The Armor debuff of ZOE makes it harder to repair against incoming damage, furthermore, USING ZOE actually makes it almost impossible to even get repairs since you need to be constantly moving to try and mitigate the huge armor debuff. Furthermore, you can't even get out of it... you're stuck for the whole duration. However with Lockdown, you need only intitiate a 2 second transition before it's too late and you can duck back behind cover into safety.

Either ZOE needs a better dmg buff to warrant the heavy armor debuff, or the armor debuff needs to be reduced a little bit. Furthermore we should be allowed to turn on/off ZOE at will like HA shield, cloak, aura heal, lockdown, aegis and yes, of course include a transition time so we can't instantly turn it off right before a rocket hits us or something.

No, they aren't

It went from ZOE being ridiculously OP to being utterly worthless and actually detrimental.

Lockdown and Aegis may be (appropriately) situational, leaving charge as a solid option, however ZOE is a terrible ability that weakens our MAX for meaningless and negligible "buffs" to movement (doesn't even increase sprint speed anymore).

Most of us don't want ZOE to return to it's launch brokeness... however we would like it to be a reasonable choice.

Sure, they're more balanced now than at launch, but only because ZOE was crazy broken back then. We all know that. We aren't denying that it used to be broken. But the fear of original ZOE is keeping ZOE from being made into anything remotely useful.

I like how you guys are arguing with a guy named mostlyclueless

I enjoy using my Striker, it is pretty good used correctly, it blows my mind that newer players have to ask seasoned but clueless players whether something is good or not, their response, no no its been nerfed to s*** don't ever use that! And then word keeps spreading like a plague, until you try out something yourself and be smart about its weaknesses and strengths then you'll understand when something shines in regard to other choices. I think it applies well on this subject.

Jetpacks?

JETPACKS!

TR Maxes camp with stilleto boots. NC Maxes camp with kick-*** energy shields. VS Maxes should be able to camp on the ceiling! Well, maybe on the roof instead, but still...

There's no reason not to have VS Max jetpacks. You trade the ability to run people down and murder them (or escape angry flash mobs) for an ability that lets you slowly float to higher ground. It could be used in tons of interesting ways, and would better fit the VS theme of unconventional tactics derived from alien technology than by simply giving your MAX crack cocaine. Since it wouldn't have an arbitrary negative attribute, players could cert into lower ranks without gimping themselves. It was also in Planetside 1, but I don't really know anything about that.

- they don't have to move as fast as light assaults with jetpacks, either...

The maximum such jumpjets should be able to do is to jump over the wall that surrounds A point in techplants.

Or it will be crazy hard to balance jumpjets, considering the amount of fuel it will contain, and the places it will be able to get the VS max into.