TTK on a heavy is longer because of the shield. That has nothing to do with the LMG. Regarding your other post, it's irrelevant that LMGs have better stationary ADS accuracy, because you're gonna die in CQC combat if you stand still. Moving ADS accuracy is the only relevant stat, and SMGs win there. It seems your only real point is that LMGs have more bullets in the magazine. This can certainly come in handy, but you can also die because you got caught in a 4+ second reload, whereas with an SMG that's not really an issue. I'll also add that if you're failing to kill a single enemy with a full 30-round mag in CQC, it's on you to improve your accuracy.
What I see happening now more than ever are BR 100's who have finished most infantry Directives stick to HA exclusively. Mostly for lol's at later hours. I'm seeing it a lot lately. A group of very high BR's of certain outfits (some are exclusively BR 100) drop into a base after 2200 on Emerald and beat the crap out of the clueless multitudes. Most of these outfits have good gear and experience little latency on average. They drop in on a moderate sized fight and it turns the battle into a latency/FPS bog of epic proportions for everyone else. The average players, the drop-ins and casuals especially, have their latency drop even further and then have to compete with the 20 fully certed heavies coordinating through voice with intense air-cover. Is this bad? is it illegal? No, of course not, but it does reek of horrible game-play. As it's not just about the performance of the outfit, it's a conscious effort to utilize the meta against the average joe. With the horrible hit detection and the terrible latency most folks experience, the chance of defeating a fully certed HA is almost impossible for any other class. Now, I do believe that every class has the ability to take out each and every other class. The problem is that the gear of certain classes can take advantage of the game issues more than others. It's no small wonder so many high BR's and outfits are running HA's exclusively or in high proportion. They know what's going on and take advantage of it.
Fair enough on the ADS accuracy argument. I concede. Regarding accuracy, exactly my point, having a 100 round smg with slightly worse hipfire and very similar ADS accuracy does not give you that room to improve as much as playing other classes does. Missing doesnt matter as much when you have more HP and bullets than the other guy Im well aware of the TTK having nothing to do with LMGs, i was just trying to make a point that the extra HP is a very noticeable ability especially since it has no downsides.
Here are a few reasons why it wont come. #1 When the idea was first announced the community outcry was MASSIVE. An overwhelming no to the purposed nerf. So they rejected it. #2 The impact on new players AND vets would be incredibly negative. The heavy was DESIGNED to take a lot of punishment without pulling max. #3 To kill a heavy keep this in mind... HEAD SHOTS! HEAD SHOTS! HEAD SHOTS!
there are still no downsides to the overshield regardless of where you hit, the NMG or adrenaline shields still take the HS damage
This is a problem that should have never been created in the first place. In most fps shooters a "Heavy" is the guy who carries the big guns, LMG's, RL's... You know... A "Heavy Weapons Specialist"... For bullet sponges we already can get a MAX suit. Having said this, I wouldn't expect a nerf anytime soon, or ever. People will defend their "crutches" to the death. I would.
dtz cuz ur newbz and cant use ur guns and class. 1st of all, infls are the 2nd LOUDETS guys after MAX-es, so if u think that recharging ur cloak behind a tree in a cross-firefight is a good idea, ur wrong. Most ppl (HA 80%) can find an infl just by the sound of him cloaking. 20% can kill ya if they just see a glympse of ur infl while running in cloak. Same goes for LA's and MAX'es so if a HA turns 180 at ya with his NMG on, know, that ur were dead atm he heard the sound of u cloak. on the other hand, HA's shield last only for a few seconds idle, and cower up only a few bullets if headshots. so take out his over shield, and go for the kill easy as that. in most FPS shooters dem heavys also have the most deadlyest mid-close range weapons, that intagib things like an iceberg in Titanic
I'm getting so tired of these threads. I barely play HA at all, the only non max class I play less is infil, and I think that HA shield should not be nerfed at all. If I'm playing medic/engie, I do not expect to beat a HA, as my class as support abilities where HAs only have potential in getting kills. If I'm playing infil, I will only engage HAs if I am forced to or if he is vulnerable (aka reloading). If I'm playing LA, I should only beat them with ambushes or better positioning. And with MAX, yeah I should prob beat a HA 1v1, but that's obvious. The most important thing here is that although I do not expect to win, I often will due to superior aim or allies. tl;dr: imo HA is pretty balanced
You're really not helping our case by saying misinformed stuff like that. LMGs in general are not great CQC weapons at all. 1. Very limited hip fire even with advanced laser sights. Worst in the game among automatic weapons, in fact. Not only SMGs have best in the game starting hip fire CoFs, they also bloom half as fast, meaning sustained automatic hip fire will be much more accurate. Having accurate hip fire is extremely important. It allows the user to move at full speed, rapidly changing position and dodging while returning fire. 2. Same goes for 75% ADS speed. All of the SMGs, but only three of the LMGs have that. Granted, these LMGs are the most popular - and it's one of the reasons why. Personally, I don't think 75% ADS LMGs should exist. It's more or less fine for NS-15M due to it's very low DPS. It's supposed to compensate for low DPS by dodging fire while being deadly accurate. But Orion / SVA-88 just have it too good. 3. For a moment let's put DPS aside and talk about raw rate of fire. LMGs have highest rate of fire of 750, while SMGs have from 750 and up to 896. Cyclone is a notable exception. Higher rate of fire is naturally better for CQC, as it allows to more reliably inflict damage while your crosshair moves over the target. Also high rate of fireweapons have lesser of a penalty to TTK when BTK increases due to damage degradation or nanoweave. All SMGs, except for Failstorm, have "high" DPS of around ~1780. Best TR and NC CQC LMGs also have this DPS. Best NC CQC LMG (Anchor) has "medium" DPS of ~1660. While these LMGs are used a lot, we can't simply say "all LMGs have high DPS" like we can in case of SMGs. 4. ADS accuracy bears no meaning, at CQC ranges there's no tangible difference between 0.3 CoF of SMGs and 0.4 - 0.45 CoF of LMGs. It is important in ranged combat though, where it makes LMGs possibly worse than ARs. 5. Magazine capacity, or more precisely, damage per magazine. It's a controversial stat. In a vacuum, it shouldn't matter. All SMGs and LMGs have enough damage per magazine to reliably kill at least one target in CQC. Additional damage per magazine only comes into play only: At range, where it's harder to hit bullets and they do lesser damage on top of that. Flanking multiple enemies. In cases above, additional damage per mag doesn't help user survive or win, just secure more kills before escaping / having to reload. Situations where you can confront several enemies at once and survive long enough to kill all of them. Very unlikely. Situations where the user is unskilled / or missing unusually a lot of rounds due to some circumstances. Situations where the target is bunny-hopping and dogging and popping med kits while the user wastes ammo. Target waits until user empties his mag, then turn around and kill him. Can be countered by aiming skill or simply running away. Not always possible, though. There's also a limit after which damage per magazine simply stops being important. I'd say this threshold is somewhere around 50 rounds with 143 damage. That amount of DPM is more than enough to ignore and bypass all bunny-hopping attempts, and enough to kill at least one target regardless of range. It was never a hidden fact that low-capacity SMGs require the user to be very skilled* / have good aim. For everyone else there are high-capacity SMGs. Their damage per mag is not as high as even the lowest damage per mag of LMGs, but it's way more than enough to compete with LMGs in CQC. * - I know there are people salty in the direction of SMG infiltrators. I never understood them. Cloak is loud and visible, Infiltrators are weak. If you get gibbed by them a lot, then you should be more attentive. 6. Reload speed shouldn't matter. Enemies shouldn't run into you while you reload. I wouldn't say SMGs have an advantage due to faster reload. Especially the low capacity SMGs. They have to reload after each engagement, and probably spend a lot more time reloading than LMGs, even if their reload is shorter. They also have higher chance of running into long reload time. Overall, SMGs win by a fair margin and they're one of the best dueling weapons for close range, while LMGs are the among the worst. Note that we're talking about 0-11m ranges here. I'd put 20m as an absolute limit to SMG effective range. 143 / 698 and 167 / 600 and 200 / 500 are the "medium" DPS of ~1660. 143 / 750 is "high" DPS of ~1780.
You guys probably never had need for it, so it's understandable why you wouldn't think that HA can aim for the head too. "Shield slows the user down and therefore makes him easier to hit (in the head)" is invalid argument. Let's say player A and player B are having a firefight. Player A is stationary, and player B is moving, dodging. Now tell me, when player B moves, does player A remain stationary on his screen? No. He moves too, and player B has to adjust his aim to compensate. Even though only one player moves, both of them have to adjust aim. The faster the player B moves, the harder it is to keep aim, for both of them. Even though the shield slows only one of the players, it makes aiming equally easy for both players. Therefore, reduced movespeed with active shield is not a real downside, as far as firefights are concerned. EDIT: I actually thought off a counter-argument to this, but I'm not gonna post it for now. Curious what you guys can come up with.
I did say "standard," not medium. I look at these tiers as the baseline because most default weapons fall into one of them, and they're round numbers, which suggests they're the conceptual starting point.
The default weapons may be setting a standard, but they're setting different standards depending on a particular weapon. Weapons are not born equal. Even a default gun can be biased towards CQC or range. CARV and Orion are inclined towards CQC, hence higher DPS and RoF. Gauss SAW is a ranged LMG, hence lower DPS and RoF. They should not be mentioned together.
I agree the shield's movement penalty isn't really a significant downside, but only because you can just choose not to use the shield if it's going to be an issue, or in the case of NMG/adrenaline shield, start the fight at full speed, tank some damage with the shield, and then seamlessly go back to full speed. Limited movement is definitely a bad thing, though, just as 0.75x ADS is a clear advantage. The thing is, strafing in a firefight is mainly effective because YOU know when you're going to change direction, but your opponent doesn't. Therefore, you can instantly compensate for that change, while your opponent has a lag time equal to their reaction time, which is about .25 seconds on average according to a cursory Google search. Greater movement speed increases the odds of moving out of the line of fire before the opponent can recognize the change in direction and respond.
In the context of my original post, all this is irrelevant. The fact is, these ARE the maximum-DPS tiers available for LMGs, and higher-DPS tiers are available in carbines, assault rifles, and SMGs.
Fair enough, but i will maintain that LMGs are fantastic CQC weapons but begin saying it as opinion due to the fact they can be used to very good effect in almost all ranges, as well as being able to outshine every other cqc weapon in magazine size, and with a very possible exception of shotguns in DPM, which is an important deciding factor in any cqc engagement as it shows how inaccurate you can be before needing to reload
