When can we expect the Heavy Assault shield changes to finally come?

Well if you can't beat them, join them.

Time to make an NC Jackhammer alt and farm in bio labs!

Yele sweg

I wasn't necessarily replying to just you.

I know what their intended purposes are, but that doesn't mean the HA isn't out-performing it's intended purpose. I wouldn't care if the shield added some health, but 750 is far too much. I'd even be ok with 1000 if it only applied to vehicle weapons. But for small arms combat, that 750 is an instant win button against other classes who have done exactly what they are supposed to - flanked you. And that is what is ********. The shield can overcome the advantages of other classes, meaning there is no point in using the other classes. If 10 HAs, a medic, and an engy, are going to beat 8 HAs, a medic, an engineer, a LA, and an infil, why would you use anything but the 10 HAs?

But he still came out on top and is there for the next fight, because of an instantly activated ability who's learning curve consists of pressing a single button whenever you come under attack. And the only downside he's at is that he has exactly the same health and shields of the everyone else he's fighting. Oh no, what a terrible downside.

No, I'm not. They have 175% of the health of a normal player that can be activated instantly and at will. The medic has to set up their shield recharge, and the regeneration field, if used in combat, will buy you at most 2 extra bullets due to how slow it is, not 3-7 like NMG does. It's not like the HA's weapons are worse, or their turn speed is limited. Even if the medic got the full effect of their regeneration, it's still less than the HA's NMG.

I can still beat them, but that doesn't mean my k/d ratio doesn't jump up by 2 when I switch to one.

For vehicles: Engineers with AV MANA or Mines, Enfineers/LAs/Medics with C4
For MAXes: Maxes, AV Mines, combined traps with AV/AI Mines, C4 from Medics/Engineers/LAs
Large groups of Infantry: MAXes, large groups of Infantry, AI MANA

Medics are palyed to create medic trains that can rez each otehr over and over. Its another problem that is caused by the lack of limitation to revives.

HAs however are also played en mass and i see alot of them and they are way more common then other classes.

Most HA players dont have interest in teamwork. HAs are the class that doesnt need to support and that stacks up the most kills. Most HA players never have supported there teams in any way and just use it because the shield can make them win in most situations. If you think otherwise please explain me why i see SMG and Shotgun HAs on a regular basis while these weapons can be used by all classes.

Its more common that rooms get stormed by everyone else sind most HAs are to busy sitting behind corners and using tehre Rocket Launchers to shoot into the enemies direction. If otehr classes wouldnt storm the bases the situation would be stuck for hours.

In either scenario, that is some really bad squad composition. Most semi-serious outfits are always going to run more medics than heavies. How can the shield overcome the ability to revive a fallen teammate? How can the shield keep your squad supplied in a building hold? How does the shield have more utility than a wisely placed turret? Tell ya what, take either of those squads, and run it against a full medic (also bad composition) squad and see which lasts longer.

If your KD jumps up by 2 when playing heavy, you are playing the other classes wrong. When I play medic, I drop to around 3.5 w/o revives, with heavy, about 4.0. Lowest is engie at about 3.2, My best KD class is light assault, w/ 4.7. If anything flanking and positioning, are OP.

I don't get the shield QQ. Does each empire have access to the overshield? Do you have the ability to pull heavy yourself? Where is the balance problem??

Most of these Outfits are going either for 11 Medics + 1 Engineer or 5-6 HAs + 5-6 Medics + Engineer. Sometimes you can see 1 Infiltrator too.

So in your opinion there can never be a balance problem if everyone has access? Just one example, the AV MANA got its range reduced recently, because of balance, yet everyone had access to it.

And now we come to the question, what you guess would happen if all players would decide to become anti teamplay players and started playing HA 24/7?

Aight this will be fun.

There is plenty of point to the other classes, in fact I stated it perfectly in my post which you apparently didn't bother reading. You can make a more effective push with 10 medics than you could with 10 heavy assaults. Medics can heal their team in an aoe with their nano-regen device instantly (which stacks btw), they can constantly regenerate shields with the regeneration field and can revive their teammates when they go down. Hell they don't even need to use the nano-regen device at all, because they have a grenade that does the exact same thing in an AOE. They even have grenades that can instantly revive their entire team if they go down. 10 smg infiltrators could easily outplay 10 heavy assaults just with surprised attacks and using their scouting tools to reveal their location. 10 engineers could make an impenetrable shield wall and have infinite ammo.

Hell, your entire rebuttal to my point was using an straw man argument in an attempt to misinterpret my statements and rely on assumed circumstances where your side would be right. In case you somehow managed to forget my points let me break them down for you again.

None of those things you can argue with or say they are wrong. None of these things make heavy assault the best all around class unless you only goal is getting kills, which if that is your purpose, then why the hell aren't you playing the class built for that purpose, that is like trying to tank a dungeon on a priest or dps the boss down as the a tank. You are going to have a hard time breaking from a classes role, and if your next argument is going to be "well all classes should be able to..." let me stop it right there, because no they shouldn't. All classes have their own defined roles in which they excel, if you can't recognize that then you have no purpose being here.

Yes he would come out on top, want to know why? Because THAT IS HIS JOB. Killing people is the only business for the heavy assault and if they don't win fights than he is ****** at his job isn't he? Also what another crazy circumstantial argument, why the hell would you assume that a heavy coming out of a fight took absolutely no damage to his health and shields during it?

First off: The shield is 700 points, I have no idea where your getting the extra 50 from

Second off: What? The only guns that would possibly fall into the category of taking 7+ are pistols or the lynx at 50 meters an the amount of shots the shield absorbs isn't what matters, more on that below.

Third: You do realize the shield depletes over time constantly right? Every instant it is up it loses effectiveness even during a firefight, even if you never land a hit.

Yes you are over exaggerating (as show by above points) and here is your biggest problem: You are no looking at the big picture, every single scenario you have though of are all one vs one scenarios. In planetside, a game where you literally have one hundred vs one hundred person battles and ait vehicles shell bases, tanks shells and bullets flying everywhere and you are worried about the scenario of a one vs one. If you catch a heavy with his shield ability down and flank him like you are supposed to, he is dead. He has the same health as everyone else, and will die in the same amount of shots. In the scenario where you find him with his shield still up then you will take (on average) an additional four-five bullets to kill him assuming you didn't get a single headshot (in which case, learn to aim), now lets put that in perspective for a moment... the below example is too demonstrate how number of shots doesn't matter, time to kill does and the shield barely adds any to that whatsoever. Allow me to demonstrate.

On a gun like the T9-carv or Orion, which has a fire rate of 750 and a damage of 143 per bullet you would need 5 rounds to fully break a heavies shield at full strength (and would still deal damage to his shield/health afterwords), you will spit out 12 (rounded down to nearest whole obvious, you can't shoot half a bullet) rounds in a single second, which means you would shoot 6 bullets in 0.5 seconds. This means you would fire one shot every 0.083 seconds so in about 0.415 seconds you would burn through his shield as if it wasn't there, assuming that once again you landed all of your shots and none of them were headshots.

Not enough for you? Well since obviously the Orion would have the same numbers let us try the Gauss Saw instead. At 200 damage per bullet it would take 4 bullets to fully break a heavies shield with an extra 100 dealt to health or shields, with a fire rate of 500 it would spit out 8 rounds in a second, so 4 rounds in 0.5 seconds. Well would you look at that, it would take a Gauss saw nearly the same amount of time assuming there were no headshots.

Now keep in mind I have done everything to make this argument more sound on your end, I have eliminated headshots in the above examples, which could possibly halve the amount of time taken to destroy the shield at 0.25 seconds. I have even eliminated the constant drain factor on the heavies shield, which would also be a factor here just to show you how miniscule of a difference it really is. 0.5 seconds with a possibility of being 0.25 just on the examples listed. What else do you want?


Just for fun: LC2 Lynx
Fire rate: 909 (what a weird number) = 15 shots per second (rounded down from 15.15)
Max damage: 125
Number of shots it would take to destroy shield: 6 (5.6 rounded up)
Number of shots in 0.5 seconds = 7 (7.5 brought down)
Time to destroy shield = 0.42 seconds

Then where are all the professional outfits running around with 10 medics in a squad? Because I've never seen one. But I see them running 8+ heavy assaults on a daily basis. It also seems to be the go-to class for over half the people I fight. The thing is, the rez grenade and AoE heal means you really only need 1-2 medics, because they can cover everyone fighting, and HAs will pump out a lot more firepower than the medics will, which is what you need in combat resurrection situations. The other thing is that the medic's AoE heal is quite slow - more often than not, I die before I receive the full effect of it if I turn it on in combat. The same can't happen for an HA unless they're running the resist shield for some reason.

The entire point of having multiple classes is to give people gameplay options. Some are more fun than others, but if one of them is clearly superior in most game play choices, why would you choose anything else? There's a reason over 70% of my deaths are from HAs.

Your whole argument is on the pretense that HAs need the extra shields to kill things, but that's why they have superior weapons. LMGs are awesome. Low recoil, great bloom patterns, high damage out to medium-long range. There's literally no downside to these guns except that they don't kill quite as fast as assault rifles or shotguns at CQC. But that's ok! You can use those if you want to as an HA. Not that I ever see an HA using anything other than HA-only weapons. Because why would you?

So because the HA's job is to kill people, that automatically overrides the LA's and Infil's job of killing people by flanking and catching people off guard? Let's not forget that the LA's sole purpose is to kill people as well, just in a different way. And just because you thought the other arguments were straw men doesn't mean the point wasn't valid. The HA has the ability to kill people better than anyone else by virtue of their weapons. Just like the medic can heal people, and the engineer can repair. The HA is the only one that also gets an additional boost for that, except that the medic can also heal them self. By the logic of the HA shield, medics should have similar shields while reviving, as should engies while they repair, and infils while they're cloaked. After all, they're doing their job, right?

Because I've been playing off and on since beta and these things change every couple of months. In any case, 700 is still far too much, and it's not counting any other bonuses from adrenaline shield. Even the devs called it an instant win button, and that's all the damnation I really need to say about it.

If you really want to get into weapons and TTKs, by all means, go ahead. Once you factor in player / gun accuracy, latency and client-side hit detection, it's pretty clear why the HA's shield is so ridiculous. It probably wouldn't be if things were exactly as you said with bullet damage and whatnot, but I've had to unload 4x lethal damage into people that weren't moving because the server refused to recognize them as hits. There are a lot of problems in the game at the moment, and the HA's shield gets all the stronger for them.

Yes there is, because it is the most played class, because people like killing things and not having the responsbility of helping their team in different ways. It is the easiest class to just pick up and go with and offers high firepower so of course the m ajority of your deaths are going to be caused by heavy assault, especially in cqc.

I have gone over this point with you three times now.

You even just said yourself that they don't kill as fast as assault rifles or shotguns at CQC, but failed to mention they also have worse hip fire accuracy and lower rates of fire (which in turn represents damage) than most carbines/smgs as well. LMG's are better suited for medium range engagements, and are not overbearing in the least unless you think magazine size is overpowered.

So while acknowledging that you had made previous straw man arguments, you make another one a second later. Nice. You are purposely misinterpreting my argument to make your own seem to have more merit. never once did I state any class should have a shield to do their job, but I stated heavies need it because it is their only job, they don't get the ability to heal, they don't get the ability to hack or revive or repair or cloak or place deployables, they can only activate a small shield that temporarily increases their hardiness to give themselves an advantage to allow them to do their job and your proposal is that the fact they have an lmg should be enough to dictate their role? So by your own logic there infiltrators should lose their ability to cloak because they can use sniper rifles then? Should we remove the ability on the medic because his repair tool is enough for his role?

Each class has its own role, heavy can only kill things and move slow as all hell when using their ability, light assault is the opposite, they sacrifice having more durability for a more mobility/flanking based ability and the infiltrator is long-range specialist with short range flanking, plus the ability to cripple base defenses and provide recon for their team usingtheir tool. I feel like you are basing your entire argument off biolabs or something. The heavy does not invalidate catching the enemy off guard, but in fact it promotes it because it is the best way to approach an enemy heavy assault.

The devs make a lot of jokes in every patch, if you took everything they said seriously you would think vanguards would shoot rainbows and scythes could cut other esfs in half, and the fact that "instant win" button was in quotes made it seem like they were quoting forum complaints more than anything else. They decided to go back on their decision to change the heavy assault, so what does that tell you? Or do the devs decisions only apply when it is convenient for you?

So I go and break down all of the facts for you, give you pure statistics and numbers and even go ahead with the assumptions that the heavies shield was not draining over time and none of the hits were headshots just to make the time it takes seem longer, and your basic response is "yeah but numbers and statistics don't mean anything cus' lag" right, well keep sitting on that rage boat then because the problem you are having has nothing to do with the heavy assault and everything to do with your connection and optimization issues. I should also mention that for the most part client-side hit detection works in the perspective of the shooter, if he gets a hit marker on you on his screen, when you dashed behind cover on yours, you take the hit, so every shot you see hit goes through. This discussion is thoroughly done, I have said all I can possibly say and stated every possible fact that could be stated in an attempt to get at your common sense, if your response every time is simply going to be "yeah but why should anyone choose anything but heavy assault?" then this discussion is going no where, you are not looking for wisdom, answers to your questions or discussion, you are looking for people who will listen to and validate your complaints.

You should have at least 1 infiltrator per squad. No serious outfit is running 11 medics. Most also aren't running that many heavies in one squad. You will usually see 2 engies per squad as well.

Apples and oranges. AV MANA turret functioning the way that it was was more akin to a bug rather than a balance issue. Same with c4 being detonated after revives.

Then fights would be determined by who is the better player, who had better positioning, who got the jump on who, etc. I don't see your point here.

Still don't see the problem. If you want the same infantry-killing utility as the heavy that killed you, just respawn as a heavy.

I've not responded to these threads because I'll never understand this crybaby type of thinking. I shouldn't have started now I suppose. It's not that hard to pull heavy yourself if you have such a complaint about it.

i would be perfectly fine with a ramp up time on my shields to give people who ambush me a proper chance, but ATM very few people seem concerned about the HA shields so i think it is generally low priority.

You just don't get it. HA has no advantage whatsoever against any other class without the "I-win" shield. It has weapons that kill slower, less mobility, and no real value besides being a frontline meatshield. Why do you think most competitive teams run an even split with medics and heavies? Stop whining about your own inadequacy.

If you engage a heavy even in a straight 1v1 typically your weapon DPS and movement speed will win you the engagement if you can shoot semi-decently. If you can't, well, there's your problem. Stop complaining.

This is coming from someone who used to main heavy but switched to medic for competitive purposes.

I also have not even mentioned the ridiculousness of a res grenade. You can revive an indefinite number of people in a given area with 1 grenade (you can have up to 4). How is that less broken than a heavy winning a 1v1? The saddest thing there is is when I go on a 20-killstreak, only to realize it doesn't matter because the guy I killed 3 seconds ago got me from behind- because some medic looked in my direction and pressed "G'.

I started to play Medic aswell and omg medic weps r so much better then lmgs, shorter time to kill and grenade bandolier with 4 revive grandes is really good.

And the self heals medics got is about the same as ha shield, its likea shield.

I think ha are perfectly fine atm.

Note that the people crying about HA shields are utter ****ters with KD/s under 2. Let me guess, playing an infiltrator and they lost a 1v1 fight with a heavy?

Give me a break. Learn to play.

O

Oh dear, the class that is designed to be a front liner and have an edge over other infantry will beat the other classes? The class is designed to beat a non-shield class in a 1v1 fight. Seriously people like you are just hilarious. You cry about HA players having no skill when the issue actually lies with you and YOUR poor skill level.

More or less, learn to flank. Crying about losing to a HA in a face to face fight. Give me a break.

This is a simple learn to play issue.

I play medic and get some KPH but i get like 40k xp more. LOOOOOOOL Its called aim. The LMG by far are the ****tiest guns if you compare them to the assault rifles or carbines even honestly

Medics are already the best CQC class. Especially if you are a TR medic. Taking or changing the HA shield will be a indirect buff to the medics and you will see even more running around. Right now in a good squad you want equal HA/Medics, 2 Engineers, 1 Infiltrator and if you have a really good LA you give him a spot as well.

People dont seem to understand that it's not an easy task to change the HA as the whole balancing system is a fragile ecosystem that is influenced by the smallest changes. We wont see any changed to the HA shield soon and rightfully so.

If you want any credibility, get your facts straight. The only direct "HP" bonus comes from NMG and Adrenaline Shield. Both only provide 650 hp, and are effectively countered using headshots, which makes the TTK on a heavy with NMG lower than a Resist Heavy. Resist heavies only get a 50% resistance to small arms, and no HP bonus. There's no 175% health ********. Also, the Heavy weapons are less accurate on the move and kill slower than ARs/Carbines. TBH, most people are crying in this thread because the really good players use HA to farm, because they can position well enough to force 1v1s on Live Server. 80% of people who play this game are really just quite horrendous at aiming. It's hard to accept, but true.

According to the last patch notes I looked up on it, it's 700. If the NMG (or adrenaline, same thing) are countered by headshots, what counters the HA's headshots? You're basically saying it takes a superior player to beat an HA. So what happens when the superior player goes HA? The HA offers more combat flexibility and reliability than anyone other class, so their defensive capabilities don't need to be so crazily large.

Let's break this down for TR:
Cycler: 8 shots after 10m. 750 rpm = .56 TTK with 100% accuracy.
Carv: 8 shots after 10m. 750 rpm = .56 TTK with 100% accuracy.

That's kind of...the same. In fact, if you ADS, the only difference between the two guns is .1 move accuracy. Hipfiring is less accurate for the LMG, but if the enemy is close enough you shouldn't ADS, you shouldn't be having an issue hitting anyway. While other empires are slightly different in their TTKs and such, it's almost always in favor of the LMG. For NC, the only time the gauss rifle beats the gauss saw is at max range and it's only by .02 seconds. For VS, the pulsar is flat out worse at all ranges.

So basically, you're wrong on weapons. The LMGs aren't quite as accurate while hipfiring and moving, but only if you aren't ADSing, and if enemies are close enough you shouldn't be ADSing then you shouldn't be having issues hitting them. And of course HAs have full access to shotguns and carbines, so they have more options than the medic.

But here's the real issue. That TR medic, which would take .56 seconds to kill anyone else, will take 14 shots to kill an HA who activates their shield in the middle of taking damage (Because when else are you going to do it?). 14 shots is 1.12 seconds. Or a TTK that's literally twice as long as any other class.

I'm sorry, but that's not balanced. 2x the TTK for the "downside" of being the most flexible and useful class in virtually all combat situations is not acceptable.

Why did this thread get bumped?


I mean we covered all of this.




Also........ The HA doesn't have a 2x TTK of the other classes.


All classes have the same HP(infilitrator has 100 Shields less).

So overall all classes have the same TTK, the HA shield extends it for barely 1-2 seconds.

You can still die with your shield up and you don't win every fight.

thank you.


And your last sentences are perfect and spot on.