What's up with the VS getting the .75 ADS speed LMGs?

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Coltorl, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. Sossen

    You shouldn't be using a weapon that offers the advanced laser with a forward grip instead. Essentially, a weapon has to pay for a superior attachment balance-wise in some other department. Besides, the Anchor already has considerably less horizontal recoil even if the Orion puts on a forward grip.
  2. Mxiter

    167/600epm weapons are the fasters firing 167weapons (NC faction trait).
    Telling you're sick of 167/600 weapons is like a TR telling they're sick of 143/750 weapons or VS telling they're bored of accurate 143/698 weapons.
  3. Mxiter

    It depends the gameplay/player preference/weapons choice.

    It happened to me to play the MSW-R and Jaguar with forward grip as all rounder beaucase of tighter COF+Great ROF (the jag have 0.75 ads move mult :p)

    Generally adv laser makes the weapons better at CQC and grip better at mid range with those high ROF weapons.
    While the 0.75 ADS move mult don't give a real advantage at knife range (but if you aim the head), it's an huge bonus from close to mid range by getting an accuracy buff (ADS) without losing too much mobility/dodge.
  4. Sossen

    Maybe, but the weapons get a good attachment at a cost. Not using upgraded attachments is an opportunity cost - you might get a good gun and it might become better at other ranges, but that gun was balanced around using those attachments. Using the MSW-R with a forward grip means that the only advantage you get over an Orion with a forward grip is soft point ammunition. Meanwhile the Orion gets .75x ads movement and slightly more controllable recoil.
  5. Mxiter

    MSW-R get lower vertical recoil and slighty worst horizontal one. Both weapons are finally very close and well balanced.
  6. W0rthy

    You misunderstand, hipfire weapons already have outstanding hipfire without advanced laser attachment on. A lot of players use foregrip on advanced laser weapons, it's an option you have. You can go all the way hipfire or use foregrip so you can do pretty good ads whilst still having pretty good hipfire.

    If you are not that great at aim correcting, you can put advanced laser on weapons and then complain that they aren't up to par with other weapons in the same class whilst ads'ing. Or you can use the foregrip. All weapons have several options like that, try out all the combinations and see what works best for you and your playstyle.

    For instance, TR assault rifle tar is pretty erratic when ads'ing with advanced laser on due to it's high rof, if you're good you can aim correct your way out of it and offset both horizontal and vertical, but throw on foregrip and it's a beast that can be succesfully used mid+ and even long with burst with far more ease, but sacrificing the hipfire.

    Similarly foregrip works extremely well on the nc gdf-7 carbine. It really depends on how much you want to hipfire and how much you want to ads. Each weapon gives you the choice, just because it has advanced laser doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't throw on foregrip and ads with it if you are not engaging in close quarters, and then switch to advanced laser if you go close quarters.

    If you didn't have that option, a lot of sidegreade arms would be severely crippled and situational, where adv laser weapons could ONLY do close-mid no matter what you threw on it.
  7. lilleAllan

    Yeah, and after auraxium'ing the Mercenary, Gauss Rifle and EM6 I would want something different. It feels like I'm using variations of the same weapon. I think most TR and VS players would appreciate a more diverse weapon selection as well.
    • Up x 1
  8. Mxiter

    I use the TAR with forrgrip (especially because the 0.75 ads move mult), even with it, it's just "okay" at mid range but still better than with Adv. laser sight.
    It's like an SMG.

    But i'm ok with the idea: weapons with adv laser sight mostly have tighter moving COFs (Hip and ADS) and most are viable with forward grip.
    You'll find those weapons stats here:
  9. W0rthy

    Here's my weapon stats

    I'm a BR100 player over on ceres playing infantry mostly, and clocked a serious amount of hours in this great game. And eventhough forumside claims that orion and sva-88 are some of the best lmg's available to VS, you can see the weapon i have most kills with is the polaris where i switch between foregrip and advanced laser depending on the situation. I only have half as many kills with sva and orion and i do pretty decently.

    As heavy I mostly use polaris (100 mag) and flare with extended mag (150) since high sized mags fit better with adren.

    The 0.75x ads on lmg's you barely even take advantage of on the sva and orion and its reduced to almost nothing when overshielding, also when using those weapons you have to reduce your movements to get more accurate since they have lower mag size and require more precise hits unless you want to die reloading, aswell as to improve your aim correction. So those weapons seem like dynamite on paper but they have their downsides..

    So when i say 0.75x ads is no big deal on lmg wielding overshielding heavies, maybe you should take it a bit more seriously. You can take advantage of it if you don't overshield on heavy sure. But still the movement difference is minute, it might make the difference a few times if you're sidestrafing behind an obstacle, but certainly not as many times as you propose..

    If you really think the 0.75x ads multipler saves you more times than the overshield, then i'd be happy to pop on the test server with you and we'll do a sunderer battle.. best out of 50, i'll use overshield everytime on TR or NC and you try and dodge me without overshield by using the might of the 0.75x multiplier.. somehow i have an idea how that one will turn out....

    The 0.75x ads is much more relevant on the TR carbines (jaguar and lynx), since LA's who are already far more mobile and can attack from odd angles, do not have their ads movement not slowed down by things like overshield so they can pop out from a roof and headshot you.
  10. Mxiter

    Not really :(.
    Each faction have a weapons base that generally looks like a lot (Cyler-Trac5-Jaguar-Carv-MSW-R/Mercenary-gauss rifle-EM-6 - Anchor/ Pulsar VS1-Solstice-Pulsar LSW-SVA-88)

    TR lack mid-long range weapons, VS have a nice diveristy, but some of meh weapons.
    Grass is greener syndrom certainly :D.
  11. W0rthy

    Yeah there's a reason why jaguar and lynx aswell eventhough having great hipfire also has forward grip option and a 0.75x ads multiplier. So it's clearly intended that there's multiple ways to use adv laser weapons viably depending on the situation/playstyle.

    So with threads like these it's a great opportunity to show people that a lot of weapons have far more diversity than they thought :cool: A lot of work has gone into it from SOE's side to have that viability whilst maintaining a good balance, and hopefully more people will start recognizing that.

    So a protip would be before comparing weapons in the way that you wish to propose altering the stats to balance something out. Be sure that you have tried all the attachment combinations for it! Because 99% of the time you haven't, and that's why (whateverkilledmeisop rants aside) you are feeling the weapon is inferior to the other factions equivalents.

    And also do remember that diversity of the weapons compared to other factions respectively, is part of what makes the game awesome to play in the first place and what keeps us coming back for more. ;)
    • Up x 1
  12. Sossen

    Well, I could draw a parallel to the relationship between the T16 Rhino and the EM1. Stats-wise they are almost equal - the T16 gets slightly less vertical recoil and a faster bullet, but the EM1 gets a faster reload. Some slight differences, but nothing big. They differ in one big department though. The T16 gets an advanced forward grip and HVA where the EM1 gets an advanced laser sight and SPA.

    Here's my point. You could try to use the EM1 at longer ranges with a normal forward grip, but it would be objectively worse when compared to a T16 with the adv forward grip and HVA. You could also use the T16 with a normal laser sight in CQC, but it would be objectively worse than the EM1 as well. Meanwhile, they gain no advantage over the other at other ranges as long as they try to use the "wrong" attachments.

    This shows that guns are balanced around their attachments as well. A gun that offers an upgraded attachment has lost something else in return. If the aim is a versatile weapon, then there usually is an option that is supposed to be the most versatile. That option doesn't really exist among the TR LMGs though, if they upgraded the T32 Bull or T9 CARV-S slightly then maybe. Using a weapon with a clear specialization as shown by its attachments with some other attachments means that it will very often be inferior to another weapon in practically every possible way. A CME without an advanced forward grip is going to be worse than the NS-11A. The H-V45 with a forward grip is worse than a GR-22 with advanced laser sight. And so on.
  13. W0rthy

    What my good sir!?!?!!!11one.. tmg50 hv, carv-s with foregrip/hv, bull with hv, Rhino aswell somewhat, i use those with tremendous success on my TR.

    Imo it feels more like NC is lacking in the lmg long range department aside from gauss saw. It doesn't feel like they truly have an ursa/tmg50/bull equivalent in the lmg department. They do however have the two hipfire beasts em1 and anchor that both are insane with foregrip on, and the em6 and saw for allround. So it's not like NC is left behind in any way. More of their LMG's are just more geared towards closer ranges than the other two.
  14. W0rthy

    Bingo. You nailed it. And clearly a lot of work went into doing that.

    As to the rest of your reply the weapons for diversity and joy of gameplay are somewhat distinct rather than complete clones of the other factions have slight differences whilst remaining in the same basic categories.

    This makes playing each faction distinct and enjoyable as a new fresh experience whilst still maintaining cross faction balance, and the illusion of difference is so deceptively well done so well that untill you've played all factions sufficiently and/or carefully scrutinize all the stats and how they combine together.. you don't see how well balanced the infantry weapons are across factions. That's not saying no further tweaks are necessary at all.. but overall it's pretty damn close to perfect whilst maintaining assymetric balance.

    This song comes to mind hehe
  15. Sossen

    I'm exaggerating, of course, but it is a matter of playstyle more than anything. I've played a lot of HA on all three factions and when I finally got to VS, the Orion turned out to be a breath of fresh air for me.
  16. W0rthy

    Yeah that's the grass is greener "syndrome", happens to a lot that switch factions imo, you find some weapon in whatever category/class that you have a wild killstreak with and think that weapon is now OP, give it a little time you'll start gaining more perspective.

    For instance my playstyle fits better with higher mag sizes which VS doesn't have, so when i started playing TR laughed pretty hard when using the carv/carv-s with extended mags or carbine/ar's with 40 instead of 30 rounds, so a lot is about a weapon that is fits your playstyle. When you play all factions you'll run into one that fits you perfectly and that's what causes it hehe..

    For you it's the orion(mswr w foregrip or anchor with foregrip is what you're looking for if you don't want to play vs), for now atleast. But when you get tired of owning 1 guy with with precise aim correction and feeling like a baws, and then dying to 3-4 people charging you because you have to reload, you'll start looking around at other options. That's why i mostly use flare/polaris for instance. But to each their own playstyle naturally.

    You'll have a lot of fun with orion and resist though if you got your buddies to back you up, in my experience low mag weapons fit better with resist in general. It's just really annoying to mid+ with it since you often run out of ammo if he starts dodging so there's a lot of guys you just don't finish off depending on the situation. Especially if you're going for 2-3 guys at the same time.
  17. Mxiter

    For long range.
    Em6 ~= T16 (EM6s requires more predicting at those range because of lower bullet velocity)
    Saw~=TMG~= saw-S

    But i wasn't especially speaking about LMGs, but infrantry weapons in general: TR get generally 2 high ROF-CQC weapons and 1 long range weapon.

    Bull a long range LMG? it's just a bad medium range weapon with slow ROF, small magazine and average-good accuracy. I prefer using MSW-R+Forward grip in every situations.
    EM-1 isr insane in the bad way. Its only "strength" is 143 damages (higher ROF that others NC LMGs but lower DPS) and have worst hip firing base than GD-22S and Anchor.
  18. W0rthy

    Nah bull with hv is a lot like the ursa, it fires slow and has substantial recoil but hits like a hammer if you nail the shots. Most probably use it with softpoint for point defence though.

    TR long range viable weapons imo; LMG: tmg50/bull/carv s/carv burst fire, Carbine: t5amc/trac5/jag/trac-5 burst, AR: Sabr13, Tar with foregrip. T1 cycler bursting, cycler trv slightly too erratic for long but can do mid+.

    Aside from the sabr13 which is amazing TR is a little dicey on the AR department due to the high rof on the sidegrades though, i'd agree with that. Where VS and NC have the equinox/carnage which are slightly more stable alround the TR have the cycler trv/tar. But that rof can be tamed with the foregrip for mid+ to make for some really fast kills on the TAR and somewhat on the cycler trv. Requires aim correction of high standard though, both vertical and horizontal. BUT you do get 10 more rounds to finish the guy off, which is not to be understated.. means a lot when you're bursting a guy to determine weither or not he's going to be able to pop a medkit whilst you reload or go behind a rock.

    EM1 with foregrip is pretty crazy for taking down a lot of enemies, yeah you have to lay it on them quite a bit more but it has 100 rounds for that which means that you can keep killing people without having to reload. Feels to me like its somewhere between carv (mag size) and orion (damage). Unfortunately many people throw advanced laser on it and complain about dying all the time to mid+ targets because the ads then requires quite a bit more aim correction.

    I'm not sure why this gun has advanced laser attachment though except to throw it in for diversity since overall you're better off with a foregrip if you want to take out a lot of people with it that aren't standing in your face, since the lower damage require a lot of bullets to hit your target than the average NC weapon its the odd one out of the bunch and feels more like a VS weapon than an NC weapon. Which i guess is why many NC don't like the em1.

    The em1 is in many ways a lot like the polaris which has the same attachments.
  19. lilleAllan

    Not at all -
    first, I'm not saying that any faction has better weapons than the other.
    Second, I have characters on all factions.

    I'm just saying that I'd like SoE to get a bit more creative with the weapons.
    • Up x 1
  20. Van Dax

    compensator with an advanced laser seems counterproductive rather than an advantage. However I greatly dislike the polaris so i am a bit biased.
    • Up x 1