What's the point in overnerfing ESF AA weaponry?

Discussion in 'Planetside 2 Test Server: Discussion' started by Kristan, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. Kristan

    I just don't get it. People used to cry over A2A missiles because of their 3 hit kill on ESFs. It was redirected as nti-Lib weapon and then we realized that we were mistaken. That change was a mistake. It turned A2A missiles into garbage that is useless against ESFs and Liberators alike. And now Coyotes were nerfhammered as well and useless too. It takes 5 volleys to kill an ESF!

    So what's the point? You wish to increase TTK in ESF combat? Well you didn't consider that rotary nosegun still obliterates ESF with a single mag. Which means right now noseguns do far better job at anti-aircraft combat than dedicated weaponry. It wouldn't be a problem if not the terrible aiming that requires both mouse and keyboard input, which I find quite ridiculous.

    That means a better skilled pilots who managed to get along with such wonky aiming system does a better job at anti-air duty while sporting rocket pods or hornets, than dedicated anti-air configuration ESF with a bit less skilled pilot. By means of balance it's complete trainwreck.

    Speaking about Hornets. While A2A missiles were labeled as dedicated anti-Liberator weapon it takes 10 missiles to destroy it. It means locking on, 1 sec refire between missiles, reload, yada-yada... It takes four Hornets to blow up a Lib. FOUR!!! No locking, shorter refire, just lead them or unload up close. HellooOOoo!..

    So if you had an idea of A2A weaponry as supplementary to the nosegun between reloads then scrap it, because at currents state it's not working, since you better just wait for reload and keep using the nosegun.
    • Up x 2
  2. LtBomber1

    Totally agree. An ESF running dedicated A2A loadouts should be in a winning position. If one chooses A2G loadout, A2A should be in major disadvantage and feel like you brought a SMG to a sniper duel. Sure, skill can compensate something, but in the airgame skill is everything by now, excluding a lot of players from it.
    I never got why they changed the old tomcats. Three hits with lock-on, included staying on the target were not OP at all. ESF with Nosegun/Lolpods should not be the to go loadout for godlike pilots. Coyotes traded the same fate. They used to be competetive in A2A combat, than nerfed further down the road. Skillgap in airgame is far to large, and introduced support mechanism were nerfed out.

    Problem arise from very unintuitive flight mechanic coupled with "wonky" aiming systems.
    • Up x 1
  3. Demigan

    Are you missing the fact that A2A missiles will be more effective than any flak weapon after the update? You need a whole freaking clip from the Skyguard, the "strongest" G2A weapon in the game, to down an ESF on the PTS!
    • Up x 1
  4. Liewec123

    i'd LOVE for them to bring A2A lock-ons back,
    i absolutely hate skyknights, and they absolutely hated getting killed by skynoobs like me.

    without A2A lock-ons playing air is like:
    "congratulations, you've been spotted by a skyknight, please deposit your vehicle into the garbage and return to infantry side..."

    because they'll chase you across the whole f%%king map if thats what it takes to gank you,
    once you're spotted by a skyknight, you might as well bail.

    so yeah, bring back A2A missiles! death to skyknights!
    • Up x 3
  5. Kristan

    Yeah, I've noticed that as well. That's why I think devs are trying to increase survivability of ESFs, but fail, because noseguns are still obliterating them in mere seconds.
    • Up x 1
  6. Demigan

    Why would they increase the ESF survivability? It makes no sense. The vehicle that already have a very high toughness when you add their ability to escape their attackers (all but other ESF ofcourse), gets it even easier?

    And what about Liberators attacking ground troops? Or Galaxies becoming even more indestructible when dropping off troops? Or Valkyries now destroying Skyguards before the Skyguard can kill it? This is like they listened to the grievances of the ground game vs the air game, and then decided the exact opposite.
    The fact that some pilots dare think this is a deathblow to the airgame as they know it is preposterous.
    • Up x 1
  7. LetMeBeClear

    I'd settle for a Liberator that does what it's modeled after: high altitude bomber; not some low-flying tank busting in one clip afterburn get away vehicle of mass destruction. Definitely needs some checks to that carcass. Anyone ever seen low-flying bomber in real life? Me either, and that's with 4 years AF.
    • Up x 1
  8. Silkensmooth

    I play a FPS for skilled gameplay and aiming. FPS is all about aiming.

    People who want to play a game which pits ones skill against another's dont like weapons which require no skill to use.

    Coyotes are so broken that you can fire them at the right range and hit a target which isnt even on your screen.

    I would say that if you want fights that dont require aiming, play a game that is tab target?

    What is the point of flying, and learning to be good at it if someone can just buy a weapon that completely negates the skill? How is that fun? It isnt.

    Whats fun, and the point of playing a FPS in the first place is practicing to get good and to test yourself against other players skill to see how well you do. Adding skilless weapons that require no aiming destroys that.

    To counter superior skill in a FPS you should have to use superior numbers, not be given weapons that do the work for you.
  9. Kristan

    I call BS on most of your statements. Especially about coyotes.

    Yes, you're playing FPS, but at most FPS games all you need to aim properly is only mouse input. But that's not how it works with aircrafts in Planetside, since you not only have to aim with mouse, but with keyboard as well, sensitivity of which you can't control.

    Also in FPS you use appropriate weapons for appropriate task. I bet you're not trying to shoot down ESF with Archer for the sake of "mad skill". You'll pull dedicated anti-air weapon for that. And so will most of people do.

    We're not talking about "I win" weapons here. We're talking about dedicated weapons that do dedicated role of air superiority, equipping which players limits themselves from doing other roles, like A2G duty. But current weapon balance leads to inferiority of dedicated A2A configuration, while A2G configuration is still effective against other aircrafts as long as it doesn't have AI nosegun. Even more, A2G configuration with Hornets happens to be superior against large aircrafts than "skilless" configuration with A2A lockons.
  10. LtBomber1

    I agree on this. Even if one is using crutches like A2A locks or coyotes, a competent pilot would still win. If it was a 1v1 with old lock-on mechanics, and you omly used tomcats, you were going to loose. On the other hand, it worked well with teamwork, so if one player charged in and the other stayed back and locked... THIS is excatly the situation, were numbers and specific loadout should win.

    In order to push ESF more to real planes i would cancel their ability to move ascend/descend. The can still stand stand still in the air by airbreak to rearm and land, but if they want to move, there will be only one direction: To the front.
  11. fulanckyce

    I second this. Though I doubt when will make the "Real ESF" happening tho....
  12. Wingthong

    I am of the opinion that if I am using a weapon that takes MASSIVELY more skill than my opponents, I should win. I also support adding/using weapons that have a high skill ceiling.

    lets talk ESF nose guns and wing mounts: I have auraxed the TR rotary and almost auraxed the needler, and have also played around with tomcats, coyotes. Now, because of this games interesting (putting it politely) flight mechanics, it take a very experienced pilot to preform manoeuvres such as quickly turning and reversing. it takes insane coordination to be able to be thrusting backwards whilst bobbing up and down and returning fire, this is where my point comes in:

    - It takes absolutely ZERO SKILL to put the enemy ESF in vaguely in the centre of my screen and press fire, therefore, I should loose to people who are actually trying to aim.

    - The skill curve is massive when it comes to doing the same with a nose gun, therefore it must win if I pull it off correctly. the Needler is insanely satisfying to get kills like with this, because you can potentially annihilate your opponent in a single mag.

    To reply to your comment about "dedicated A2A weapons being bad", it is almost impossible to fly around with the current state of the game without the added fuel pods on your wings, because of flaks insane range and damage(a rant for another day :)), and only having a small fuel pool to use in dogfights puts you at a large disadvantage. By far the most rewarding way to play ESF A2A is with a rotary/locust/ES specific nose guns and your preference of fuel pods as it makes the skill ceiling insanely high for the manoeuvers and fights. ESF A2A is the most fun thing in this game for me, and I hope to aurax it later this year :D

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