[Suggestion] What would make being outpopped fun for you?

I like the idea of Auto firing base turrets

Special anti siege weapons
For example a max that drops with a pod to a spot of his choosing which is basically a light assault for a maximum of 5 minutes life or an area of charge(so he wont be able to charge the next base) and stay as a defense only character
An overpop for me is basically a vehicle siege and a55%+ pop

Auto firing base turrets is a TERRIBLE idea. What would really be great is if everyone would stop whining about overpop. Its a 3 faction game. Lots of fights all over. I have never even once in over 6 years of playing had ANY problems with overpop. NEVER.

I should have known that when I ask about what would make fighting an underpop more fun, that people would start about how being underpopped is fun right now and that you just need the right mindset/tactic to make it fun.

Now for those who didn't realise yet here's what you should do if you want to answer this:

Think of the situation it is in now, even if you like it. And give a suggestion on how to make it more fun. So much fun in fact, that no one would care about being either outpopped, in equal pop or in the overpop. That is the goal: To make the game fun regardless of what situation you are in. This means that the overpop should not be punished either.

So far the most on-the-point solutions have been suggestions that you should at least be able to get out of the spawn without being spawncamped. IE an unpredictable way to get out of the spawn and assault important points of the enemy like their Sunderers or the capture points themselves.

So please, no more pointless "but I like it now" or "change your attitude/tactic", give helpful suggestions on how to make this as fun as possible for everyone involved, including the one's without the "proper" attitude or tactic, who if you look at these forums far outnumber the people in the "but outnumbered is fun" camp. Otherwise there would rarely be an overpop as all you "but I love it" people would jump on it right?

Sorry but as long as cretins like DarkStar and Silken are here you aren't going to get a productive discussion. Really its just better to get the thread closed and try somewhere where maybe a moderator will shut them down. If you can find one that isn't hung up on "free speech" that is.

Okay. Let's start from the opposite viewpoint first: why being zerged is not fun:

PS2 has long TTK in Infantry versus Infantry and suicidal TTK in Infantry versus Vehicles. So against massive numbers you do not even have the pleasure to kill a *single* enemy while other ten are burying you under a ton of lead.

Conversely, your enemies are incredibly aggressive and defiant, their sheer number prevails over skills and if killed, several Medics will race to assist. Everything to gain and nothing to loose.

So being Zerged is frustrating to say the least.

Now, which mechanisms could be introduced to give [fun] options to the defenders, fully knowing that the base is lost anyway?

Additional meta available only when Zerged, things like:

"Shield Power Surge" - the defenders elect to overcharge the shields thus provoking a EMP radiating from the spawnroom. After the EMP the shields are gone (just like when the Generators are disabled) but the EMP stops enemy vehicles and disable enemy weapons (but knives) nearby the spawnroom for a certain amount of time. This allows the defenders to fan out and kill a few enemies before being definitively overwhelmed on the long run.

"Berzerk mode" - a defender individually enables "Berzerk mode" giving him/her 2x/3x/... extra health and speed for a certain amount of time. This allows the defender to get out, close the gap and kill a few enemies before dying.

...

And/or Score - based incentives:

An XP multiplier (x2? x3? ...) for the defenders active while being zerged.

Support suicide actions, death counter does not record deaths while being Zerged.

...

Progressive cost increase on consumables/vehicles for high pop across the entire faction on that continent + a cumulative increase in cost for those who are present in the zerg (naturally this would mainly serve to reduce the amounts of 'nade and C4 spam but would also make contested hacked vehicle terminal more expensive to pull from).

Increased spawn options within and nearby hexes + reduced spawn timers.

Setting up a spawn camp should a royal pain in the backside even if you have superior numbers and the game should encourage and teach new players about counter-play (perhaps even having the announcer voice suggesting you pull vehicles to take out enemy spawn points).

not sure. I used to like playing underpop, going where ever my team most desperately needs help to hold the line. But over time it became just too much because in this game, one player can only do so much. I still go where ever my faction needs help and is underpop, i wish i would be rewarded for it bit more. Altough, as i am getting towards having all the stuff i want, only thing left is fun gameplay. Fast respawn times is one thing that makes it more fun, other than that... No idea. Personally i would like ability to command NPC armies, but i know lot of people dont like that.

The rewards are not there for being defensive up front, most people see the glory in base captures. This is why blitzkreig of bases in mass is so popular.

It’s not skillful to just pull mass numbers, because once you encounter a greater force you get negated. People who are inexperienced gather with the safety in numbers. The zerg mentalities exist because they are obsessed with kill stats or outfit points or leaderboard stuff for bragging rights.

I agree with some suggestions here such as Deploy sunderers defensively like it was before and also allow to build PMB anywhere.
That was already a good step forward by removing red lattice for Orbital Strike but still... you have to build in the middle of nowhere, the zerg is going on another lane then cut off territories you were suppose to protect. Then they just need a few guys to cap those unconnected territories and make OS worthless again. Or they will simply zerg your base and since you are in the middle of nowhere don't expect any help!

Being outpopped is never fun on cere's, basically means your stuck at warp gate. Happens often for the Nc at the time I play. Doesn't help when the Nc generally needs sheer numbers to take any base, like yesterday, It took 2 hours and 80% pop in the area to take a base off Vs. And it was the only available base to attack.

nothing. nothing would make it fun. it's not a zombie horde game. balance the factions, skill balance the players, or get rid of one of the factions. and fix the lag spikes.

It's nearly unsolvable. Some things that may help though...

1. Fix the stupid pain field.
2. Increase bases that have a spawn room teleporter.
3. Add a 2nd teleporter to some to make a 3rd egress location. Suppressing one spawn is easy. Two is tougher. Three is real hard....at that point attackers are going to struggle with suppression tactics and will fall back to defending the base itself and the point. They'll still have advantage and will win but a good fight can happen.
4. Add SCUs to more bases. If defenders are crushed enough that they are spawn camped then it may just be best for the fight to end.
5. Put a lot more cover assets in place near the spawn and on the way towards point. Crates, small walls, etc. Make the ones near spawns more effective, particularly from crossfire and many angles.

i may add

more cover for vehiclespawns ... like some are simply just open ... and can be bombarded no problem, meaning you may not even get the chance to defend a base with a vehicle but have to fall back a base to bring in vehiclesupport ..

Yeah, we saw in the Dev Stream today that Heavy Assault is getting the Thumper as a Main Weapon option, so that and better Resource and Respawn rates would at least give Defenders plenty of indirect fire and Splash damage options for clearly out clusters of unlucky enemies...

Still, I've always been an advocate for improving Base defenses, and one of the ways I can think of Gamifying that is to integrate the Construction System and Cortium into Static Bases to help power Defensive Upgrades like Modules.

Well I don't blame the Continental Lattice, you are right that the near nothing we have in terms of Logistics has hurt the game.
The Continental Lattice at least concentrates populations into Zerg Balls, which while not fun to fight against are at least easier to balance against.
The old Hex Adjacency system we had in Beta just made Population differences even worse, as you had to play Musical Base Capture in addition to trying to put up any sort of defense.

I wouldn't Shrink the No-build Zones THAT much, but I DO agree they need to be better tailored to the individual Bases.
The only No-build Zone I'd shrink a large amount are the ones around the Warpgates, as those can completely eclipse some Bases.
For actual Fortification of the Static Lattice Bases, I'd first see how equipping each with a Cortium Silo and then a few open "Module Slots" would work first.
When Construction first hit the Test Server, one of my first thoughts was how Base Defense would be far more bearable if the Turret AI Module could be slotted into a Tower.
Nearly all the Existing Modules (Save the rather useless Reinforcements Needed) could be made to have a specific Effect on a Static Base when "slotted" in:

• Skywall Shield Emitter - Essentially toggles the Skywall Shield on for that particular Base; Pretty easy to imagine this working since the Devs once tried giving Static Bases PERMANENT Sky Shields
• Structure Shield Module - Toggles on Faction Specific Shields on specific Openings; Mostly Windows but perhaps some doors as well
• Repair Module - Auto Regenerates Destructibles (Static Turrets, Generators) Health; Not terrible useful since there are a lot of things that can already do this in game already, but it's something.
• Turret AI Module - As I said previously, it would Automate Static Base Turrets of a Base much like it does to their constructible Counterparts; Very useful for Bases like Towers, Amp Stations, and Tech Plants when you don't have enough people to both fight AND sit in a Turret.
• Alarm Module - Probably at least a passive Recon Detection Effect within a Base's Perimeter, if not outright Radar.

As DemonicTreerat has already said, these Defensive Modules would hopefully have the built in Balance of requiring a constant supply of Cortium, as well as hopefully being fairly uncomplicated for the Developers to implement.

Again, I don't think it's the Fixed Continental Lattice that's the problem, instead it's that we don't have WORKING WARPGATES and the ability to expand into an Intercontinental Lattice.

The first step is trying to get the Warpgates, or more specifically transferring Vehicles and the Players in them from one Continent Map to another, working.
We need to see if the Game Servers can actually handle this without crashing or bursting into flames, which is why I was glad to hear about the Euro Server Upgrades.

Since such a mechanic would essentially be like the Biolab Teleporters, where you are essentially re-spawning a Character as-is at another set of coordinates, getting the Warpgates working could also excuse overhauling Vehicle Spawn mechanics.
This could allow us a means to change a Spawn Vehicle's Current Loadout, as well as providing a means to "Load" and "Unload" Vehicles onto others for transport!

If the Devs can get Warpgates working at usable scale, they would then have a good idea how hard such a system would be to expand, namely applying it to the Boarders of the Continents that are currently "Out of Bounds."
If we can be "Teleported" from the Edge of one Continental Map to another, we'd have yet another avenue to initiate combat from, and be one working Water System away from having "Ocean" Maps and Naval Vehicles.

Finally, with all this Freedom to move from one Continent to another at will, Construction could get an Offensive Module to allow Players the ability to start Fights on otherwise "Locked" Continents.
This "Hacking Module" would create a very visible timer (viewable by anyone bothering to look at that map) that once completed, turns the particular Lattice Base in that Hex Territory Neutral and open to be Captured by whoever can hold it.
You'd still have to hold the Base for whatever amount of time it needs to be Captured normally, on top of the Hacking Countdown and the Cortium fueling thereof, so a group would need to be Organized to capitalize on it without being shut down by a passing ESF or whoever else response.

This, on top of using Router Pads defensively, is such a good idea that I don't honestly know why the Devs haven't put it in yet.

Lorefrienly explanation: Faction has limited nanite generation speed, more people they have on field, less nanites they can spare per each. And similarly less people they have, more nanites to work with. Additionally spawnrooms could have some "Nanite fueled shield overloader" which gives you temporary boost to survival and/or damage output, namely I'm thinking some way to deal with air when you are being swarmed by sky full of enemy air power. Perhaps in form of those upgrade-parts from PS1 engineers had and could use to upgrade turrets. Using this boost would deplete the nanites, but if you are in underpopped side, you'd get to use it more often than your opponent.

Obvious caveat would be that any defense would turn to nanite fueled ****fest for a while, when defenders, even when pressed by lesser force would rely on these. So, this idea is not fully formed yet, again mayne the usage would be better compounded by pop rates, where the use is more expensive more people they got on field.

Personally I've often felt like not even trying when fighting bigger zerg, since I know that even if we succesfully defend against them for a while, unless we get lot more pop, we can't push them out for good. This made me wonder if there's a way to give defender lockdowns so it doesn't break things. There's too many ways this could backfire, so it needs to be thought out. Like my initial idea of "After 5 defensive wins, the base locks out for 15min" could easily be exploited by playing with friend on enemy side, you just cap a place in turns until it locks out. Perhaps some mowdown-counter where something like "10k kills in the base area, it's now considered defended for a while."

Alright, my crazy suggestion: At a certain overpop ratio (At base level) waive the cortium fee for pulling a max.

Give the defenders a rapidly decaying overshield with different pop/strength thresholds. 2/1 overpop, 1000 health shield. 3/1 overpop, 2000 health shield.

Aimbot.

One improvement would be much faster shield recharge rate. It does not make anyone absorb bullets like crazy, but it lets underpop faction get back into action (from cover) faster. I don't like idea of giving anyone more health or more DPS, but this would be just fine.

Perhaps underpop could get passive health and ammo regeneration even without the implants equipped, or if implants are equipped boost them a little. Again the underpop faction would still die if you shoot at them just easily as before, but would help them cope with having less teammates to support them.

These + already existing faster spawn timers + experience boosts + NS operatives could be enough. Perhaps also auto firing base turrets - though i think that should be given to all factions all the time unless generators/turrets are blown up.