what should the MAX be?

Discussion in 'MAX' started by TR5L4Y3R, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. TR5L4Y3R

    lets talk about the >>>"ROLE"<<< of the MAX in general and not derail this threat into the NC version being underpowered again ..

    also "deleted" does not count .. it´s in .. deal with it ..



    what is the max at the moment?

    - most prominently a indoor light armored vehicle that can be revived as it is also a infantryclass

    - clearly not like the heavy assault which is a nanite free (aside from nades and consumeables) jack of all trades at any time were the MAX is a expensive nanite (and cert) investment that has to dedicate itself to a role (AI, AV, AA) ...

    - it´s primarily used vs infantry even though it has access to AV and AA weapons (you still need 2 to 3 to down a lightning, MBT and lib in a fair ammount of time )

    - it requires engineersupport for keeping it alive soaking up damage in choke or defensive positions as well as keeping it suplied with ammo ..



    what the max should be imo

    - more emphasised on tanking than cleaning up infantry .. so make it a bit more surviveable against lowcaliber automatic weapons and explosions at the expense of slightly less AI capability ?

    - be a squadsupportunit both for infantry and small vehicle columns, not just firesupport so maybe add a shieldgen, radar or ammopack to it .. maybe passive groundvehicle repairpack? of course any of them not AS effective as deticated classvariants .. there should be a reason to have 2 to 4 with your squad ..

    - at least be able to deter vehicles for how immobile the MAX itself is, light armored vehicles should not be able to instaroadkill it ...


    thougts?
    want to add or change something?
    or keep the MAX as it currently is?
    • Up x 3
  2. LordKrelas

    I'd like the Squad-Support specialization, outside of being just another gun.
    Saves it from being a Infantry-sized 450-nanite unit, that also has to suffer as an infantry-level unit.
    To add to the list of possible support roles: Maybe the ability to deploy into an Shielded 360-Degree Turret, to help reinforce a position, or a Minor-Overshield Generator (for non-max allies) in proximity, that regenerates after 10-5 seconds after breaking fully.

    Deterrence is always a Mixed-bag, let alone on a slow platform, as it either is unlikely to scare away the opponent, or it's stacked up, killing the opponent - and with AA, this usually means a flip from "Chip damage" to near-instant-death.

    But certainly need to change the unit, at 450 nanites, It's an MBT or Liberator's worth of nanites, and they don't feel it.
    While needing a lot of support, for the 'best' results, their most notable usage to allies, is their sheer firepower, or how they draw fire.
    • Up x 1
  3. Liewec123

    the max should be an expensive tanky room breacher that can take alot of punishment.

    it is the slowest unit in the game, the most expensive (ASP now lets you lower MBT/lib/gal cost to 360 if you want.)
    yet also one of only 2 units with a resource cost that are killed with a single c4, the other being the cheap fragile quadbike.
    even the damn buggies now take 2 c4 to destroy and cost less than half of the cost of a max.

    imho they should have Ordinance armour by default,
    the suit slot choices should be between Kinetic and NAR, explosive resistance needs to be made default.
    i don't even mind if they can't be revived to make up for it, there is no reason why maxes are still dead to a single c4 or 2 rockets...

    the max is supposed to be a room breacher, yet its kinda impossible to do that when almost every class can carry c4 and it only takes a single brick hurled across the room to end a max...

    in my eyes the perfect place for max would be doing less damage than standard infantry (but still good damage) but with a lot of suppression/large magazines, and be able to take a LOT of damage.
    • Up x 1
  4. TR5L4Y3R



    pretty much ties in with what i said, more surviveability for less AI killpotential ...
    but i also like to see the max being usefull outside, and not have to hide in spawnrooms against vehicles/aircraft most of the time .. ..

    right but there needs to be a ballance to effectiveness between plattforms ... thing is often times a single max can´t do much at all against vehicles .. it gets insta roadkilled by a harrasser or even flash, it get´s knocked the living hell out of it from a mbt and a daltonlib just laughs into its face ... that´s why i said it should be at least able to scare them away cause i feel it isn´t realy able to do even that unless in numbers ..
    again we are speaking about a nigh immobile 450 nanite plattform that gets instakilled by a 50 nanite plattform ...
    • Up x 1
  5. TRspy007



    A lot of little kids are going to cry about this, but the MAX was designed to be a force multiplier. It should serve a role as to break choke points, and one MAX should be able to have an effect on the battle flow. This immense power is justified by a huge cost (the same as an MBT) and it used to have a cooldown, which can be implemented again.

    Currently the MAX is nothing near what it should be. MAXes can either choose to die to C4, nades and rockets or small arms fire based on the armor they choose. I'm a LA main, and I'm complaining about how weak MAXes are. MAXes have been nerfed to the ground, they are way too easy to destroy. Everyone knows that spending nanites on a MAX is a waste, or else everyone would pull a MAX given the chance.

    MAXes are in a state where pulling one without support (at least 1-2 engineers and a medic) is just suicide. A MAX only takes half a second more to die than standard infantry unless they are under constant repairs, and still that's not even always the case. The result is that only people who lead outfits/squads can boss other people into supporting them as they pull a MAX. They're not crazy either, most don't push unless it's a MAX crash, so these MAXes just sit there guarding doorways and chokepoints, doing the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do. These MAXes are usually very difficult to kill since they duck out of danger and have half a platoon behind them. They are the reason people go around saying MAXes are OP, or are discouraged from playing this seemingly stale style of play.

    MAXes need to be reworked completely. Keep nanite auto repair, boost it a bit, but merge nanoeve and ordnance into one armor. Bump the default resistance of the MAX to 50% explosives and 80% smalls arms. Now the MAX is a powerful tool by default, and has a closer damage resistance profile to an MBT than before. The other armor can boost damage resistance to air and ground heavy weapons by 60%. The MAX is only slightly more mobile than a tank or ESF, and they can't outrun them. So there's no reason to make MAXes so inferior to vehicles if based on it's price range.

    Now that default resistances have been set, it's time for abilities. Reinstate the charge ability, and also a sort of adrenaline shield with it. Basically, the MAX get to sprint really fast for no longer than 5 seconds, and immediately after the sprinting stops, a shield is activated. This shield would only add resistance to small arms, by 10%. This makes the MAX 90% resistant to small arms fire. Now, it sounds OP, but it's justified by the cost of the MAX and the fact that everyone focuses on shooting MAXes since they're a bigger target and give more xp when killed. Remember that they are still pretty vulnerable to explosives.

    The shield would only recharge after a quick succession of kills (10 kills) or considerable amounts of movement. (To encourage advancing, breaking choke points instead of farming choke points). EMPs kill the shield. The shield gives surrounding friendly troops additional 200 shield (so about 1 more bullet) if they are 5 meters close to the MAX. This encourages troops to follow the MAX when it attempts to break a stalemate, even if the guy is just a solo player.

    People say that you need to play MAXes "smart" if you want to get a kill streak. That should not be the case. A noob who sees that there's this powerful looking MONSTER for 450 nanites that could give them the opportunity to get a few kills should not have to learn the hard way that MAXes are ****. MAXes should be OP against infantry, because that's exactly what they are, MAXED out infantry. They're OP versions of infantry. They still need to rely on their team in order to survive for long, but they can take the initiative without being afraid they're just throwing away their nanites.

    Sure people can take advantage of these seemingly OP boosts to the MAX, but they're not impossible to kill, they're just a challenge. I should be able to shoot a MAX more than 5 times without it dying. Currently, they're ridiculous.

    Idk either lower the costs to 50 nanites or just free, or make the MAX the tank it should be, adding a cooldown if that helps.
    We get free MAXes during the maximum pressure event. Honestly tell me if you've seen a difference in people spawning MAXes? No one cares, MAXes are slow, and they die to fast anyways, no one wants them even when they're free. That's saying something.
  6. Trigga

    Iron Man says its a suit of armour, War Machine agrees.
    [IMG]
  7. Clone117

    When i see a power armored infantry unit. A force multiplier that should be capable of wiping the floor with your generic cannon fodder Infantry. Within certain scenarios. Which from use and experience should be bum rushing entrenched infantry positions essentialy breaking through various levels of defense. Pretty much a glorified meatshield that should have the ability to storm that heavily defended room and do enough to weaken the enemy enough for friendlies to gain a foothold.
  8. TR5L4Y3R


    i would be carefull with "wiping the floor with your generic infantry" ... on one hand yes the max should be able to take out single or 2 infantrymans with little problem but not just go in and wipe half a squad on it´s own .. that way you may just go and spawn like 3 of them and clean a room .. that´s not how it should work, how it should work imo and as you mentioned it should be a definitive (not gloryfied) meatshield that can take some good punishmeant (from explosives and cannonshots as well) for friendly infantry to get in and take out enemies allong with the max tanking damage for them, if the enemy ignore the max they would be wittled down by constant fire of it, not ignoring it gives allies the window to get in and take out the planetmans while being distracted/buisy with the MAX/MAXs .. that´s at least the rough idea ..
  9. KhlorosTesero

    Personally i think the max issue can be solved pretty easy with just a few tweaks. The first being a base line 20% damage reduction in small arms with out adding on armor mod that reduces it by another 20. The next thing that needs to be done is overall weapon recoil needs to be reduced greatly, this issue is mostly felt on TR, it does not make any sense that a massive walking mech suit cant have stable guns.

    As much as i dont like it, there should be no change to damage done by C4 or rockets as these are designed to take down a max. The big issues is where most people are trying to use max's which is in the middle of massive gun fights, and you cant buff a max to be able to walk into 15+ people shooting with out making them op, other wise you just go back to the days of old where you would max rush points and just meme on them.

    On a smaller scale, with forces around 20 vs 20 a max should be able to go toe to toe with 4 people laying into it with small arms. right now thats not the case, 2 people, can take down a max, 1 skilled player can depending on the maxes load out. This is where i see a balance problem, i dont like that a max can be down that easy. that i think needs to change and just buffing the small arms damage reduction is the best way.
  10. brutes359

    I personally find the hatred for power armor suits to be rather amusing among the community. For all intents and purposes they are specifically specalist heavy infantry that are made with singular purposes in mind. Anti-tank anti-air anti-infantry. They can do it all. But the sacrifice is that they require a massive amount of resources to outfit to the point of being useful. as well as the fact that they are completely useless against whaever thy aren't specifically outfitted to target. Bursters cant hurt vehicles and are terrible against infantry. Ravens are great at ground targets but garbage against infantry and aircraft. Shotguns are great at infantry but terrible at air and useless against vehicles.


    They are specialist infantry. Heavy lifter that add spice to the game and can be countered with the numerous hard counters such as archer rifles and decimators at close range, C-4, massed small arms fire (even just three guys is usually enouph). Even max crashes fall flat on their face when confronted by massed light assaults with c-4 (which is currently one of the most popular classes anyway) and heavy assaults tear them apart at any range beyond 10 feet. (vs blueshifts being the acception to that of course but barely anyone plays vs maxs anyway so...)

    In the end people will demand they be nerfed more and more because they cannot be instant gibbed by a single target unless the c-4 is literally ON their body (assuming they have flak armor of course which I don't know anyone who DOESN'T). As well as the fact they pack enough firepower to strike back at whatever is attacking them. But the vary nature of what they are cuts out the argument that they are a low skill platform. The amount of certs needed to outfit them to that point disqualifies it. And their lack of flexibility in general combat means they always have hard counters available. Even their price is inhibiting at 450 points per unit they cost as much as a main battle tank and are far, FAR easier to kill.

    To that end i would humbly request the devs stop STOMPING THEM INTO THE GROUND WITH THE NERF HAMMER. they have a purpose on the battlefield and all three factions have them. NC MAX's make good shock-troopers and decent support units. TR is fire support and....well i was about to try and say something else but yea that's pretty much all they are. And vs is general infantry support and headhunting. (I'm amazed no one figured out how good ZOE is for killing sunders yet). or failing that, at least cut their prices to reflect the consistently lowering value of them in combat.
    • Up x 1

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