What niche does the MCG fill?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. Casterbridge

    It's used for CQC room clearing as mentioned, it performs this well, potentially the best HA gun for it.

    The Jackhammer has better burst but will only be good for 2 maybe 3 opponents, MCG can engage and kill more opponents and from a better range. Adding HVA is pointless, and SPA is not necessary.

    If it needed improvement I would say make the BRRT a default feature, and then the extended magazine an addon, but honestly the gun performs so well in closed areas I'm not sure it needs that at all.
  2. xMaxdamage

    huge assumption! past 9 meters distance the MCG has less dps than pretty much any LMG, it has no 2X headshot damage multiplier and a spin-up time that cripples its dps even more. Then it can't equip scopes (smoke will blind you).
    The only thing it has, when compared to an LMG, is the ability to keep firing without losing accuracy, but the reason you do keep firing is to avoid the spin-up time, not to exploit this feature.
  3. Imp C Bravo

    Unless there are a lot of guys in which case you exploit the crap out of this feature.

    The MCG is the most deadly heavy weapon. By a large margin. I see TR complain about this gun -- yet see it wreck all the time.


    Seriously -- approximately, what -- just eyeballing it looks like 70% more kills?-- at any given point than the other empire specific heavy weapons across the board?

    In the last 3 months --

    7540 - Lasher X2 | Kills | Daily Average: 6686.81
    7528 - NC05 Jackhammer | Kills | Daily Average: 7610.52
    7533 - T7 Mini-Chaingun | Kills | Daily Average: 11271.96

    I understand that some of y'all want a higher skill ceiling for it -- but come on....:confused:
  4. xMaxdamage

    lol man KPH stat means absolutely nothing. a "super cool gun", which the MCG very much obviously is, is rolled by a lot of players basically for the "fun" factor only, myself included. and we add numbers to MCG player count, which adds numbers to total kills, even if we have terribad K/D cause we just like to piss lead.

    wanna do a fair comparison? try this:

    it shows that MCG, Lasher and JH top users do pretty much the same kills. and that's not bad when compared to "the most deadly heavy weapon", for a weapon designed for suppression instead than direct combat, and for a shotgun that has no jetpack.
  5. Imp C Bravo

    Any comparison that fits yours idea is 'fair' I guess. Not that I had a reason for showing the kills match. Yes, I will plainly admit that overall kills increase as more people run the weapon. So why did I choose the metric that I did and not KPU?

    More comparable hours played for the weapons which provides evidence as to WHY more people are running the MCG than the Jackhammer or Lasher. (Funny how the Lasher is run more than the Jackhammer and yet still has significantly fewer kills -- but that's another story altogether.)

    Simple -- because more context inherent.

    I picked kills because it provides insight not only in kills, but also in number of people running the weapon, ease of use at all skill levels (that's a huge factor there), skill floor, skill ceiling, amount of time spent returning to the weapon. I bet there is more to it actually, but that's the list that pops to mind off hand. Basically -- WHY are people running the MCG in greater numbers than the Jackhammer or the Lasher? Those are the questions you should consider. More to the point -- if you JUST look at the metric of KPU BR 100 -- then you aren't considering other parts of the player base --> purposefully avoiding data that does not agree with your assumptions is specifically against the point of having stat data in the first place.

    Also -- did you look at how the MCG is usually run between 20% and 50% more often than it's competitors -- but gets closer to 70% more kills? I know you guys want a higher skill ceiling -- but come on! o_O
  6. xMaxdamage

    The MCG is a Fun Gun. also, the dps shown in the ingame weapon data tells nothing about the real RoF of the gun due to spin-up time, or how many bullets will miss even with perfect aiming skills due to fixed CoF. The average guy may run with this weapon because of shown ^god tier dps LMG^ ingame advertisement.

    Once the player realizes the gun has nowhere that dps, the MCG is dropped for a carv or a msw-r.

    Lasher, on the other hand, has a rally bad fame as a weapon not suited for direct combat. The ingame weapon stats show half dps than average LMG, 1/4 average bullet speed. The average Vanh guy says f#ck Lasher and rolls something else (farming for BG :V).

    Then they may realize that Lasher is actually quite good even for cqc if used properly (hipfiring to enemy's feet while ADAD spam) and they even reach MCG and JH KPU levels.

    If we are comparing weapon effectiveness then we should compare how effectively expert players, who mastered the different mechanics, kill other players. And I see pretty much a draw.
  7. Imp C Bravo

    I think it is more an issue with reliability and fluidity to be honest. All of the other guns are limited in what they can do when you turn a corner and there are 4-6 guys. A jackhammer wont win against that. A lasher wont win against that. The MCG might actually with a little luck. Especially if they are facing the other way. And more to the point -- it always works exactly as you predict. If turn a corner and there are 4 guys the lasher does nothing. The Jackhammer may kill them all with all headshots and lucky positioning of where they stand. The MCG might kill them (assuming they miss a few shots or are slow on the trigger) whether you headshot them or not, no matter where they are standing, etc. It will kill at the rate you expect despite with little aiming adjustment on your part (largely due to the COF as you mentioned earlier) giving you more options when using movement to extend survivability.

    The fact that the MCG works in this predictable and easily usable manner gives it more overall lethality in more situations than the other ESHWs. That flexibility is key. Whereas another lmg may be more powerful overall -- they are subject to more battlefield quirks than the MCG and require more adjustment and pauses in use where the MCG can just keep on chewing. So maybe that is its niche?

    Also -- you have to consider the battlefield. I play on PS4. You are a PC player I believe. Those two are very different situations in that engagement distance makes the game function differently in many areas. We play way closer to eachother -- so the MCG is actually pretty awesome. I hear that it is realtive crap on PC because you guys play at different ranges.

    However, it is fallacious to say BR100 or even Q4 is master. It just refers to time played. Some folks are just better with certain styles even strait out the gate. That BR 21 over there may be better with the ESHW than that BR 100 who is BR100 on every faction.

    Also you are incorrect about the lasher. You want to hit the knees, not the ground. If you miss the knees you will hit the ground and get 75 splash damage (if I remember correctly.) However, JUST hitting the ground would require over a dozen shots to kill. At the lasher fire rate and velocity this is way too slow.
  8. Draxza

    Minigun fills minigun niche. Minigun fills dakka niche. It is a niche, damnit. It's just fun to use.
    • Up x 1
  9. LordAnnihilator

    Amen to that. If it's fun to use, it's clearly effective at something, and if that something happens to be something people run into often, that's fine. It's a GODAMN Chaingun, dammit, it's niche is BULLETS EVERYWHERE!
  10. Casterbridge

    So basically as I said the gun is fine and needs no real improvement made, as no matter what way you look at the stats it performs on par (it actually performs slightly better in most cases) to the other HA ES weapons.
  11. xMaxdamage

    srry for long post, also bear with poor english pls.

    everytime you fire things that do not fill entirely the CoF you do a lot less damage than what you think, so a lot less than a pin-point accurate weapon (what those 4 hostiles will probably carry). and you have a spin up time to cripple your dps even when every bullet connects, it means you start firing at ~500 rpm or even less, you also do less damage than them when hitting heads (something they, on the other hand, have all the time needed to do since you are facing 4 enemies) and you lack 0.75% ADS movement speed, which your opponents may have. so yeah, you can kill those 4 guys but they have to be terribads or you have to be a skill god compared to them. the only real feature a MCG has is no need to reset the cone, and I see this feature of little use in a multi-enemy encounter, unless the hostiles are perfectly aligned one behind the other and don't move for the entire engage time, in way you can just keep firing in the same direction and kill everyone one after the other.

    in a multi-enemies encounter of "just after the corner" type, a PA shotgun will just be better, as you are already in the optimal 1hko distance, where a PA is pretty much the best weapon available and can easy obliterate at least 1/4 of what is firing you in literally no time.

    btw if the enemies are in a tiny group, lasher is capable of absurd amount of damage. A skilled lasher player knows how AoE damage is important to kill things at CQC as long range engangements, and while shooting at clusters of enemies that damage is basically multiplied by the number of targets hit. Sure your first kill will happen probably later when compared to standard weapons (not sure when compared to un-spinned MCG) but then other enmies will soon follow, or be left damaged if you are killed.

    being a weak LMG does make chaingun less likely to be "misplaced" on the battlefield but that doesn't necessarily make it better than any other weapon in any selected scenario. sure, it is better than a jackhammer when dealing with distant target, but every LMG is better than a shotgun there, and also better than MCG.
    Btw as a lasher-and-chaingun-only user (that's the reason for the long post) if we compare the two HWES I feel lasher is a lot more dangerous on distant targets (due to AoE damage not scaling with bullet travel time) and even at CQC, especially when not dealing with full flak armor + full NMG heavy assaults, but that is personal opinion and the best I can do to support this assumption is to show my reasons.
    I find myself killing people in 7-8-9 lasher bullets aimed to the feet at close distance, while it's not unusual to end up with 30ish MCG rounds gone against the same targets. MCG has a lot more rpm, but not that much more to justify such a bigger bullet waste. AoE adds a lot to your effective "cone of damage" thus lowering the importance of enemy's movement skills. also, you do all this while ADADADing so you even nerf the importance of enemy's aim, by evading lots of his bullets. sure, you hipfire a lot with MCG too, but you have a greater range to hipfire with efficiency with lasher.
    basically, it's all a matter of context. with MCG I once killed a guy that was running at like 200 meters away by simply throwing 150 bullets at him with no need to pause or compensate (I just put the CoF circle a bit above and a bit forward to where he was running to). with a lasher I would probably fail at that because of terrible bullet speed to be compensated for and the need to pause every 2-3 shots in order to reset bloom. but if that enemy was standing still then the MCG still would have required those 150 bullets, while lasher could have killed it with less than 10 precise ballz. also, can we really say that a weapon that is a lot ADADAD and hipfire friendly automatically lowers the importance of enemy's accuracy? some could say that it would increase that, because a faster target requires better aim to be tracked. everything will just fall into semantics at some time.

    there is btw a tiny spot where MCG is pretty much obviously better than lasher, and that happens when engaging at a ~22-35 meter range where you lose the ability to hipfire with consistency and to use terrain to damage the enemy with AoE, since the bloom makes the balls impact too soon or too far behind the target. So, in that setting you have to go for bodyshots and we all know how ****** the weapon is in that scenario, with its double than average TTK and 100 m/s bullet speed that will make you miss a lot. The MCG, on the other hand, can just ADS and hit the enemy. sure, your dps will be a joke because of misses caused by fixed CoF, but you also have some tricks you could use depending on the setting, you can for example start firing from the hip and abuse 1x movement speed, that may sound strange but your opponent will be likely ADS and expecting you to do the same, so he will track your movements expecting you to be 50% slower (as a side note, you never stand still when using MCG, as the CoF doesn't increase). once he realizes you are moving faster than he though and evaded a good amount of his bullets, his CoF will have already made his weapon less accurate than yours, and you can now ADS without need to stop fire and enjoy more dps than his weapon is capable of. MCG and lasher are considered low skill ceiling weapons but their increased hipfire viability makes experience very important in deciding when you should hipfire or not in order to abuse movement speed to decrease enemy's dps to what they have.

    I heard about this range difference on ps4, can't really understand why it happens tho, lol.

    sure! but we can't but assume that a BR 100 using the chaingun or the lasher will be likely to "like" that weapon more than how much he likes other guns he surely had the chance to try by all that play time. A BR 21 MCG guy, as I said, could run with MCG also because he just saw incorrect in-game weapon data.

    the ground should never be your target, what you are aiming depends on enemy's distance. people tend to understimate the TTK of a weapon that fires slower but hits everytime, compared to a gun that does a lot more damage but tends to miss a lot. the average ps2 guy has like 25-30% accuracy so we should assume the average common gun carried by the average planetman has like 25-30% of shown dps, but lasher hits WAY more than that if used properly.

    aiming to the knees from anything but closest range could lead to AoE waste if you miss, because when flying with that angle the missed bullets will explode too far behind the enemy. it is perfect when you are at close range because you are firing from an higher angle and even if you miss those bullets will explode right behind him.
  12. Pikachu

    It's just a slightly different LMG. Jackhammer is just another shotgun. No special roles.
  13. xMaxdamage

    MCG should not see a buff, it should have the niche it now lacks.

    Lasher is less used/scores less kills than pretty much every LMG not because it's a bad gun, but because it's designed to fill a niche, while LMGs are designed for everyday combat, which happens more often obviously.
    Jackhammer is less used than other shotguns not because it's bad, but because a shotty carry-able by HAs only makes a niche of its own xD
    MCG is less used than LMGs because it is worse than pretty much any LMG in almost all everyday setting. and yes that makes a niche of its own, but not a very enjoyable one.