Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NotziMad, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. Johannes Kaiser

    Nanana. We are faction loyalists. Playing other factions is for funsies occasionally, but not a path of least resistance to take for cheap alert wins. Fighting hard is the way to go.
  2. NotziMad

    I'll say it again (for the second page), just-in-case :

    The devs made alerts. (fact)

    The devs made biolabs and then added spawns in biolab. (fact)

    Those biolabs sabotage alerts (fact).

    That's R -E T-- A R " D_ E _D. (opinion)

    If anyone wants to discuss the topic, that's the topic.

    Discuss anything you want, I'm not saying you "have" to stay on topic.

    I'm just saying : why people like to fight in biolabs, whether people like alerts or not, whether players try to win alerts or not, all of this and more is off topic.

    But like I said, feel free to discuss whatever, I really don't mind at all, as OP of the thread, I hereby give you permission!

    Just pointing it out :)
  3. Demigan

    The devs made Alerts (fact)

    The Alerts are based on a bad gameplay flow (fact)

    Biolabs aren't the cause for Alerts to fail (fact)

    Biolabs show how broken the "supposed" gameplay flow is. Fix the supposed gameplay flow of capturing bases and you fix alerts (fact).
  4. NotziMad

    I mean (and yeah, this is off topic, but since I gave you guys permission, I also have permission right? :) ) if the devs don't like alerts, don't care for alerts, then just delete them?

    If no one, including the devs, cares for alerts, then why don't they just get rid of them? Delete them all together?

    It's not what I want, personally, I love alerts, it's even the main reason I play, once an Alert ends, that's when I take a break, but what's the point of organising a football tournament if no one is playing ball?
    • Up x 2
  5. karlooo

    Without Alerts the game is dead because there will be no leadership and competition. The leaders are what's keeping this game alive.
    Once the Alert starts that's when this game shines - the commanders arrive, create coordinated squads....This is the best PS2 experience.
    • Up x 2
  6. RabidIBM

    Ok, I have to ask, since there are players who only want an endless infantry scrum and have no interest in strategy: Why are you playing Planetside? If you aren't interested in strategy, and only want to scrum, there's Call of Duty for that. What's your draw to Planetside? I really want to know.
    • Up x 1
  7. That_One_Kane_Guy

    This. This precisely.

    Biggest issue I see is the OP labors under the delusion that Alerts = Planetside, therefore anything that negatively impacts them is tantamount to sabotaging The Game. Ask 10 random players and I'll wager half of them couldn't even tell you how to win an alert, let alone care who wins. I've seen players in chat express displeasure with their own faction for winning, since doing so ended an otherwise perfectly enjoyable fight.
    • Up x 1
  8. NotziMad

    That moment, when there's 45 seconds left on the timer, and it's a tie across all the factions, and someone shouts "ECHO VALLEY", and EVERYONE (allies AND enemies) is rushing there, spawn there, outfits flying over with galaxies full of people, because that base has less than 40 seconds left on the timer and if it hits zero or if it doesn't will determine the winner.

    It's in that kind of moment that I ******* love this game, and if we succeed in saving the base, and end up victorious, it's just such a great feeling, because for the past 1h30 hours, it's been intense, and it's not always been easy.

    Stakes in whatever game increases the pressure, makes things meaninfull, having something to lose makes winning more rewarding.

    If there was no stakes, if this game was simply an objective-less directive grind fest, I couldn't play it, I would never play it. And my personal opinion is that neither would many other people, and I'll go further, I personally believe that this is the biggest reason why Planet Side Arena failed.
  9. NotziMad

    lol, ok what you said is really dumb :)

    But to the point, I just want to insist (and it's like the 3rd time now, and I'm sure there will be a 4th and a 5th), the topic of this thread isn't whether Alerts = Planetside or not.

    It's not about sabotaging The Game either.

    What is it about?

    Here, copy paste :)


    The devs made alerts. (fact)

    The devs made biolabs and then added spawns in biolab. (fact)

    Those biolabs sabotage alerts (fact).

    That's R -E T-- A R " D_ E _D. (opinion)

    If anyone wants to discuss the topic, that's the topic.

    Discuss anything you want, I'm not saying you "have" to stay on topic.

    I'm just saying : why people like to fight in biolabs, whether people like alerts or not, whether players try to win alerts or not, all of this and more is off topic.

    But like I said, feel free to discuss whatever, I really don't mind at all, as OP of the thread, I hereby give you permission!
  10. That_One_Kane_Guy

    No indeed. It seems to be about the fact that you need to count a few more Mississippis before you rage-post things on the Internet.

    Spare me the passive aggressive tripe, it makes you look like a child.
    You want to stick to your copy pasta? Fine.

    Two statements that are indisputably true, almost to the point that it does not bear mentioning-

    -unless you wish to cover the insertion of a gigantic leap in logic immediately afterwords,

    one which allows you to neatly proceed with B follows A logic while conveniently forgetting to prove the existence of A in the first place. Convenient.

    Your logic amounts to Two Truths and a Lie with extra steps.

    The game's existence is not tied up in alerts. Killing alerts does not kill the game, the simple fact that so many players are willing to actively ignore them in favor of fights they find enjoyable supports this.
    The implications I get from your posts in this thread are that you simply do not like Biolabs and are fully prepared to simply shout down anyone who disagrees with you.
    • Up x 4
  11. Campagne

    I really don't see the supposed issue with biolabs. If players are choosing to play there en mass, it would only because they're having the most fun there. If the devs. want them to leave, they have to make other places just as fun to be in as well.
    • Excluding vehicles means the infantry inside the dome almost never encounter one and therefore almost never instantly die to an incontestable unit in the sky or on a distant hill. Preventing, reducing, or allowing accessible ways to combat instant kills and distant vehicles without requiring a massive shift in playstyle can help with this.
    • Teleportation rooms with spawntubes allow players to spend less time returning to the fight after death and instead spend more time playing the game the way they want. Shortening redundant distances and travel times will help rectify this. More methods of travel such as the underground tunnels and grav pads in tech plants would mean less running in a straight line for extended periods of time and more time spent playing and having fun.
    • A large, defined play space above the ground gives much more room to actually play within the same base. There is more than just the exact same pre-designed pathways to follow with new areas and reasons to fight in. This also gives a reason to play classes other than infiltrator and heavy, and makes the base much more dynamic. Creating more interesting playable areas in other bases will make them more enjoyable. Adding new and equally legitimate pathways to get to new places is much more interesting than all of three different paths at best.
    The goal should never be to force players, unless it is to prevent detrimental behaviours. (Cheating, abuse, etc.)

    WRONG. #3 is an opinion. :p But more importantly, this quoted piece.

    The "topic" is too narrow to discuss extensively alone. If people want to discuss the why and not just surface level opinions about the presented claim, they must discuss factors beyond the single line presented to them.

    For example, a thread about faction A doing too well/poorly cannot sustain discussion by simply stating the fact (or opinion). Why is faction A doing so good/bad? The natural conversation will always extend to the reasoning behind why it must be so. Faction A/B/C's qualifier X/Y/Z is better/worse than the faction equivalents and therefore is a likely contributor to the issue.

    You can't act like anyone is wrong for stating evidence and/or reasoning for an argument when doing so would extend beyond the pointlessly narrow "subject" by nature. It's not off-topic, it is the topic.

    Furthermore, public forum, we can and will discuss what we please as we please. When people start to disagree with you, it's generally considered bad form to start telling them they're not discussing the topic correctly, or some such thing.

    Alerts exist so continents can be locked in a controlled and comfortable fashion. We don't have the numbers to sustain all open continents anymore, and just abruptly locking one during a fight would go over about as well as it sounds. And if we were to be given a timer like we are now, why wouldn't they try to make it interesting and hide the underlying reason? But again the just of it is because the continents have to be locked periodically.

    People can still play football without a recognized competition. Don't count the scores, just play for fun. Just like why people play PS2 when no alert is active.
    • Up x 3
  12. NotziMad

    this is my last try with you two.

    How can you not see the issue? Out of 3 lines, which part is it that you're not understanding?

    I spelled it out. I put colours. I copy pasted two times. There"'s only 3 lines. 3 simple sentences.


    for the LAST TIME and with lots of colours and stuff :

    The devs made alerts. (fact)

    The devs made biolabs and then added spawns in biolab. (fact)

    THIS IS THE ISSUE -->>>>>>>>>>> Those biolabs sabotage alerts (fact).

    That's R -E T-- A R " D_ E _D. (opinion)

    (So I deleted my "opinion" and am replacing it with a translation for people who can't read 3 lines and understand them :) )

    Dev made alert + Dev made biolabs + biolabs hurt alerts = Dev introduced content (biolabs) that harms content introduced by devs (alerts).

    What is so difficult to understand about that?
  13. Demigan

    I love strategy! Unfortunately Planetside 2 has the stragetic value of a banana. The outfit update once again underlined that the most effective strategies consist of "everybody go there, zerg them, capture it, redeploy to the next base/warpgate for offense/defense". The game actively prevents many tactics and strategies from being effective.

    The game also misses the information systems for players to use, which is why only one person in a 48 player platoon can relay information at a time, which in turn is the cause that leaders will basically scream the same order at everyone in their platoon with the only real depth being in the class composition they might throw at a problem. A grunt infantryman has trouble communicating with someone standing at the other end of the same building even if they are in the same squad as for most people that information being given is useless and takes up the voice channel for other orders and information distribution. Worse is that an aircraft or tank is nearby you cant quickly and efficiently guide them to a target right in front of you.

    So when I play PS2 I go to the only place where I can still use some enjoyable tactical insight: a Biolab or other large facility fight where you can try and pick at a problem over and over from multiple angles until you succeed or are pushed back. I've proposed the simple and effective methods for actual full-blown teamplay dozens of times now, funny thing is that the most "tactical" people who scream for it on these forums dont understand the value of simple cue's that let the average player communicate with others nearby and far away. Some are even horrified of the notion that anyone not in a leader position might have something valuable to communicate to anyone else.

    TL: DR:
    Fk all the people who think current leadership is tactical or stragetical and try to shame others for not using a badly designed system.
  14. Demigan

    You think that Biolabs are the problem.

    I point out that even if you removed biolabs, Alerts are still problematic. That's because Alerts are badly designed around a bad gameplay loop.
    In other words: Alerts sabotage themselves. Biolabs just speed that along by offering the fun gameplay loop that is missing in the alerts.

    What is so hard to understand about that?
    If you understood and still thought you were right, you should be able to articulate how alerts do not sabotage themselves and how Biolabs are definitely the problem, and their removal/alteration would suddenly create the will in the playerbase to play the alert rather than find the next best thing to a Biolab.
    • Up x 1
  15. NotziMad

    I should have said ""you 3", not "you 2" (I forgot about you).

    I dont think biolabs are the problem.

    I know for sure, 100%, it's proven, it's a FACT and EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME, that biolabs harm Alerts.

    That's not even up for discussion. That's a FACT.

    All the rest (as usual) = off topic.
  16. Demigan

    Not everyone. Case in point: "you three".

    Now lets put it differently: Why are Biolabs hurting alerts?
    Because the population goes there.
    Why does the population go there?
    Because... could it be more fun? Could it be that alerts arent as fun?
    And if alerts aren't as fun, could it be that Biolabs arent the cause of alerts tanking, but the symptom created because alerts suck balls?

    Its not off-topic because it is directly related to each other. You cant say "nothing wrong with the Vulcan and oh there's someone agreeing with me so it must be true" and when I show you that its ease-of-use, DPS and actual performance make it a powerhouse that you flick it away with a simple "off-topic!" Can you? Ofcourse you could do it but people would simply repeat it as its the only way to start any discussion about the topic you started. The only "discussion" that your off-topic rules allow is people to say "I agree" or "I disagree", and the latter answer you seem to ignore or you repeat that what you have is facts and everyone agrees with it therefore anyone disagreeing must be wrong (funny how you can prove you are right by saying everyone agrees with you to the very persons disagreeing with you).

    So, could we have an on-topic discussion about the causes that make people choose Biolabs over Alerts? Which seems to me to be the most on-topic and central thing to discuss in a thread about how Biolabs steal Alert's thunder.
    • Up x 3
  17. That_One_Kane_Guy

    How about with one? I'll even re-purpose your own gaudy colors and bloated font for your convenience:
    Spot the difference for a cookie.

    Behold! He doth brush upon the issue! Unfortunately you don't seem to quite grasp the fact that a declarative statement with no evidence isn't worth the electrons it's written on. If you have proof, offer proof. Thus far all you've done is re-post the same lines over and over in an increasingly ghastly array of colors and sizes as if doing so will warp your words into something resembling a coherent argument.
    • Up x 3
  18. NotziMad


    so you are both disputing the fact (cause it's a fact) that biolabs sabotage and harm Alerts.

    It's like speaking with flat earthers.

    bye now, have fun in you you land :)
  19. NotziMad

    Didn't see this bit.

    Look, buddy, if you are asking why Biolabs are hurting alerts.


    I swear to god, there's something wrong with your minds. lol
  20. Demigan

    The thing about flat-earthers is that they at least try to present some body of proof for their idea's. So far all you've done is say "they hurt alerts" but provided no evidence of that.

    I say "Alerts hurt themselves". Several people have given the reasons for that.

    I was presenting your own argument in a way you so far refused to look at it, and took the argument through a few simple questions in the hope to get you thinking about your own argument.
    Even if you believe as much as you do that Biolabs are the problem you have to admit that the option is there that Biolabs arent the cause but a symptom of Alerts failing. So of you want to disprove my assertion that the removal of Biolabs would not make people want to play alerts you have to make a reasonable argument on how Biolabs cause players not to want to play Alerts and how that want would return if we removed them.
    Although by that point you would have to come up with a swcond argument: If Biolabs are so much more fun to play than the alert for most players, why would their removal benefit the game overall rather than hurt the game as you remove an obviously more enjoyable gameplay loop?
    • Up x 1

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